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AI’s Instagram Problem

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Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#61
I've definitely been feeling deflated. Every angle I've come up with... some project has narrowly shipped before me. And they gain so much popularity so quickly that mindshare per project becomes a power law overnight. It's like the first person to release is at the top of the App Store, and there's no unseating them; the feedback loop is already too powerful. It very much feels like first to release wins. And I swear, the quality of the code I've seen in some of these projects that are getting thousands of stars is abysmal. It's making me think releasing vaporware in order to capture mindshare, then actually building something valuable is the only way to compete.

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#62

There is a pretty big gap between what’s talked about at conference and blogs vs the actual, not very sexy, hard data science work that goes into doing “machine learning” at scale.

where can i get more content of the flavor hard data science work that goes into doing “machine learning” at scale? i'm tired of indefensible projects built on OpenAI's APIs

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#63

Aren't we maybe jumping the gun here a little? Human creations are far better still than AI ones. People seem to (very understandably) conflate "impressive because of the technology" with "good," but either way thats not going to last forever, even for the most passionate AI-heads. We will take this stuff for granted pretty soon here, and then inevitability remember again what actually enjoying and connecting with a…

> Human creations are far better still than AI ones.

I have seen many examples of AI-generated art where it's beyond my taste level to see how it could be improved on by human hands. And stuff that I genuinely appreciated for what it is, divorced from how it was made.

I am reminded that very early on with Midjourney, before this wave of AI gen art was wider known, there was a story of someone winning an art competition with a piece generated with it. [1]

But, aside from disagreement on the dimension of "good", the one area AI gen seems clearly unparalleled in is "fast". That's likely enough to disrupt.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/1/23332684/ai-generated-artw...

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#64

This is correct, but there's also some meta comment to be made that research has an "instragram problem". What he's talking about isn't really even AI so much as deep learning: there are lots of other branches that now get virtually no play relative to deep learning. And then there are all sorts of adjacent CS, image processing (when was the last time you saw someone talk about wavelets), language analysis, and other…

The goal of academic funding is to help the military and also/later the economy.

To think otherwise is naive. The whole point of research is to have an advantage. Unless that money has no strings attached, you’re beholden to someone. Every historical scientist had a major donor whether it was some kingdom or nation.

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#65

This is correct, but there's also some meta comment to be made that research has an "instragram problem". What he's talking about isn't really even AI so much as deep learning: there are lots of other branches that now get virtually no play relative to deep learning. And then there are all sorts of adjacent CS, image processing (when was the last time you saw someone talk about wavelets), language analysis, and other…

>"What he's talking about isn't really even AI so much as deep learning: there are lots of other branches that now get virtually no play relative to deep learning." Can you say what are some of non-Deep Learning branches in AI that aren't getting play relative Machine Learning/Deep Learning?

Andrew Ng in the linked message said himself: "Maybe you’re training XGBoost on a structured dataset and wondering if you’re missing out on ChatGPT. You may well be onto something even if XGBoost isn’t in the news."

Boosting generally is very competitive with (or better than) neural networks on small to midsized datasets.

Bayesian techniques are always interesting.

Personally I think there are great opportunities linking knowledge engineering approaches (which are very manual-labor heavy) with neural network approaches so we can bridge the taxonomy/unstructured data divide.

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#66

All AI projects are valuable, but it's annoying and demotivating to work hard on a unique and useful project and have no one read/use it because it doesn't stand out in the extremely rapidly-evolving ecosystem. Most of my AI text-generation and image-generation projects and tools have already become obsolete by technology released in the past few months, and I've almost given up competing.

The problem is the dynamic of AI is leveraging massive computing power into something flashy - OpenAI and DeepMind have been going back and forth on this for a while, with OpenAI leverage a lot of human also in ChatGPT.

It's a bit like the original dot-com bubble, when people were throwing what was then vast amount of money out just to be in the space. And not knowing what the business model was going to be. The business model then turned out to be advertising but it's certain that advertising is well suited to a chatbot or other new AI stuff, stuff that is computationally and dollars-wise expensive.

AI projects are often valuable if given away. I assume people will ask how valuable per watt they are after a while.

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#67
post #63

Aren't we maybe jumping the gun here a little? Human creations are far better still than AI ones. People seem to (very understandably) conflate "impressive because of the technology" with "good," but either way thats not going to last forever, even for the most passionate AI-heads. We will take this stuff for granted pretty soon here, and then inevitability remember again what actually enjoying and connecting with a…

> Human creations are far better still than AI ones. I have seen many examples of AI-generated art where it's beyond my taste level to see how it could be improved on by human hands. And stuff that I genuinely appreciated for what it is, divorced from how it was made. I am reminded that very early on with Midjourney, before this wave of AI gen art was wider known, there was a story of someone winning an art competiti…

I hear you but:

> I have seen many examples of AI-generated art where it's beyond my taste level to see how it could be improved on by human hands

This is my overriding point, beyond matters of taste. Everyone who talks about this stuff can't seem to talk about its value without reference to the hypothetical human artist or writer or whoever who didn't make it. The awe of just the fact it was made by AI can't be separated from one's appreciation of it, especially if you are someone who is incredibly passionate about AI. You say you could appreciate it without reference to the origin, but how can any of us claim that? In the same way one's thoughts about George W Bush's paintings are necessarily influenced one way or another by the artist himself, I just don't think we have the ability to separate these things. But that's not like a failing or anything, its just how it is. The total almost dizzying excitement of this AI moment/new future can only reinforce this. The more you are excited about AI art, the less you are probably really looking at it.

As for the competition thing, that looks like a fine illustration for some random fantasy novel or something! It has to me so many interesting but superficial markers of artists who use AI: somewhat baroque but stunning complexity, figures and faces of slender and/or beautiful women, a vague sense "humans right beside a large and great thing." But otherwise, can't you feel a little emptiness in it? If you really try to take anything from it at all other than a fleeting aesthetic experience?

Maybe so, maybe not, but either way, can we even speak at all to what the painting itself is trying get us to feel or think? The artist states that they were making a statement about AI artwork, but what is the statement in reference to the work? I can't tell, other than, of course, what I am saying: it is nothing about what we see represented in the painting, but simply the painting itself as a painting.

The article goes on indeed to say that the judges knew AI made it, with only speculation that maybe "they didn't understand," but I suspect that's just coming from the vocal anti-AI crowd on twitter; such that they can say its unfair or a trick or whatever. Either way, the artist's point wasn't in anything they drew, but simply seeing if they would win, and then telling everyone they did. "..and I'm not sorry." It's all quite telling!

The painting, and all the others like it, can only speak one thing: themselves as technically novel works. Which is why all the pro-AI people find themselves emphasizing this bare aspect of a work. Is a sea sponge in the bona fide style of Francis Bacon a novel work? Definitely. An amazing achievement for a computer? Certainly. But what is it after that?

After the dust settles with all this we will remember what we like and don't like again. This stuff wont go away at all, and people will continue to make interesting things! But I have a feeling eventually 95% of it will be considered in the same cultural breath as kitsch art pieces and elevator music. But this is a stronger claim I could definitely be wrong about. The main thing is, right now, its just too early to tell.

Taste is always sticky. I don't really believe in "levels," just differences. But one thing I know for sure is AI art to me is not great, even if it has masterful technique and style its just got no inspiration!

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#68

I've definitely been feeling deflated. Every angle I've come up with... some project has narrowly shipped before me. And they gain so much popularity so quickly that mindshare per project becomes a power law overnight. It's like the first person to release is at the top of the App Store, and there's no unseating them; the feedback loop is already too powerful. It very much feels like first to release wins. And I swea…

Isn't this extremely common advice? All the way down to "just do it all manually then build the software" where applicable (obviously not in AI). No one cares if the code is crap if it does what they want and you can always iterate on code after securing a revenue/funding stream.

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, yes; in practice, no. Many grants these days are given based on the trend du jour.

Sure, but funding trends is different from funding things expected to work.

Funding things you wont be fired for funding. IBMs!

Re: AI’s Instagram Problem

#70
> Being inspired by Instagram is fine...

Mostly its not inspiration. Just chewing of what is trendy, to fits in narrative and conformity. To be liked. Have more attention, more time qlued to screen...

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