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Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

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Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#141

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

kungfooey wrote: post #109
bcrosby95 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I walk my kids to school in the US, but I definitely see kids as young as 6 walking without a parent. I choose to walk with my kids because I enjoy it, and it's easy exercise. That said, a lot of parents still drive their kids - the vast majority I would say. Even people who live within walking distance. It definitely is faster if you look at it in a vacuum: you save 10 minutes round trip! And when casually discussin…

I live about a half mile from my kid's school and we walk most days, or I bike. However, it has been... eye opening. We live in a fairly urban area of Nashville, but my street doesn't have sidewalks. We've been yelled at multiple times (me, my wife, and our kindergartner) by drivers to "Get out of the road!" (This is on a 25 mph street.) There are ditches and uneven ground on both sides of the road. Even the sidewalk…

No offence, but that sounds like a terrible place to live.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#142

Post by CalRobert »

acuozzo wrote: post #76
kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

> The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Here's my take on the issue from 5 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32680201 Summary: We don't have safe roads and in most American suburbs traveling by car is often the only reasonable option available.

There are some communities trying to improve this but for the most part the US is a stroad-infested hellscape.

https://nstreetcohousing.org/ (Davis, CA) and https://culdesac.com/ (Tempe, AZ)

are worth a look.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#143

Post by danjoredd »

evan_ wrote: post #135
danjoredd wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been a genuine problem. I have heard people actually say that if a kid is playing outside by themselves, then the parent should be charged with child neglect because the kid could get hurt. Any time a kid gets hurt on YouTube the comments are filled with people blaming the parent for not being outside with them. Thing is, playing outside by yourself gives you a strong sense of independence. The kid might get hurt…

> Any time a kid gets hurt on YouTube Who's filming the kid getting hurt and putting it on youtube? Maybe that's what the comments are talking about...

No, its mostly news stories and channels like Code Blue Cam where I see people getting overprotective and blaming parents for letting their kids roam. Also sometimes kids will film each other doing stupid stuff and then those videos get added to compilations

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#144

Post by s1artibartfast »

sli wrote: post #132
s1artibartfast wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a very unrelated issue to someone being an investigated for letting their children do homework on the front lawn

It's a related cultural factor. The more we build our outdoor spaces to accommodate cars over people, the more notable it becomes when there are people in them.

That doesn't really explain the differences though. Car culture and design was as prevalent in the 40s-90's too, which basically defined the ideal of suburban sprawl. However, those spaces were also filled with children, often literally playing sports in the streets.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#145

Post by tannhaeuser »

henrikschroder wrote: post #42
pilarphosol wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a low trust society, because of all the poverty. You really notice the difference if you travel to Europe. It turns out that having half of the population be economically unsafe makes everyone and everything unsafe.

I made the same observation when I moved to the US, it was so weird to me that SF the city is pretty much devoid of children. They're all effectively locked up and prohibited from roaming. No-one trusts children, no-one trusts adults around children, no-one trusts strangers. But I went skiing in Lake Tahoe one weekend, and suddenly all of that disappeared. Suddenly, you have children freely interacting with strangers…

Really strange to hear what life for US urban kids and pedestrians has become like. Can't have been always like that. As a proof, there's an episode of The streets of San Francisco where three boys break into a supposedly abandoned mansion in their neighborhood (looking like those SF hills but what do I know).

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#146

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

CalRobert wrote: post #137
andrepd wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't open it and I knew it was a NotJustBikes video. I actually hate that channel because it made me aware of how broken the car-centric infrastructure where I live is. I was living I such blissful ignorance, now I can't unsee it!

Depending on your circumstances you may be able to emigrate to the Netherlands.

Western Europe in general. It's not just an NL thing.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#147

Post by berjin »

gitpusher wrote: post #93
acuozzo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Here's my take on the issue from 5 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32680201 Summary: We don't have safe roads and in most American suburbs traveling by car is often the only reasonable option available.

Related – this video does a nice job of articulating that argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw

NotJustBikes is very good at articulating the problem with suburban car culture. I knew it was that guy before I even clicked it and many of us have already watched it so unfortunately it's choir preaching on HN. I hope town planners and suburban SUV drivers can also be influenced by his videos.

The problem with a lot of countries is that the car culture has spread to every city due to planning laws and such. You just need one place done right that can grow into something more European.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#148

Post by listless »

kungfooey wrote: post #109
bcrosby95 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I walk my kids to school in the US, but I definitely see kids as young as 6 walking without a parent. I choose to walk with my kids because I enjoy it, and it's easy exercise. That said, a lot of parents still drive their kids - the vast majority I would say. Even people who live within walking distance. It definitely is faster if you look at it in a vacuum: you save 10 minutes round trip! And when casually discussin…

I live about a half mile from my kid's school and we walk most days, or I bike. However, it has been... eye opening. We live in a fairly urban area of Nashville, but my street doesn't have sidewalks. We've been yelled at multiple times (me, my wife, and our kindergartner) by drivers to "Get out of the road!" (This is on a 25 mph street.) There are ditches and uneven ground on both sides of the road. Even the sidewalk…

I live in the Nashville area as well. I’m sorry this is the state of things where you are. The walkable areas have all become super expensive because everyone wants to live there.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#149

Post by cryptonector »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

The U.S. federal government gives the States' child protection service agencies money grants that are conditional on those agencies actually taking children from their homes. You get what you subsidize, and if you subsidize petty tyranny, you'll get petty tyranny.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#150

Post by bcrosby95 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #144
sli wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a related cultural factor. The more we build our outdoor spaces to accommodate cars over people, the more notable it becomes when there are people in them.

That doesn't really explain the differences though. Car culture and design was as prevalent in the 40s-90's too, which basically defined the ideal of suburban sprawl. However, those spaces were also filled with children, often literally playing sports in the streets.

Yep! I blame the rise of 24 hour news and the need to spread fear mongering in the name of ratings. I think it coincides nicely with the problem.
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