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Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

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Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#31

Post by pilarphosol »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

The US is a low trust society, because of all the poverty. You really notice the difference if you travel to Europe. It turns out that having half of the population be economically unsafe makes everyone and everything unsafe.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#32

Post by swatcoder »

syrrim wrote: post #24
wonderwonder wrote: post #20

I remember reading a news story about a poor single mom who was renting a room in an extended stay and working in a pizzarea across the street from it. She left her 9? year old alone in the room so she could work. Cops show up and take her kid and arrest her for child endangerment. They made it illegal to be a poor single working mom.

They made it illegal to be a single mom and not provide adequate childcare. Many families have both parents working, so the situation of needing to find someone to look after your child is not unique to single parents. That said, this is one of the reasons raising children on your own is more difficult.

There‘s a lot unsaid in any gossiped anecdote like this, but there’s not a single fact in the story as given that suggests inadequate child care.

Maybe there were other reasons that justify the police action, but we weren’t given any here.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#33

Post by 1123581321 »

vuln wrote: post #27

This law will not give "poor kids more independence", it absolves the parent or guardian of legal responsibility for their children being unsupervised. I can't be the only one that's seen the hundreds if not THOUSANDS of children (under 18) fighting, causing mayhem, attacking innocent people, and property destruction videos that circulate all over the internet. Will this help edge cases? The mom working at the pizza…

Everything you listed is already a crime or will swiftly involve child services for due to obvious behavior problems in the children. These laws are entirely about protecting responsible parents who want to let their children learn to peacefully navigate the outdoors in a city.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#34

Post by popcalc »

pilarphosol wrote: post #31
kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

The US is a low trust society, because of all the poverty. You really notice the difference if you travel to Europe. It turns out that having half of the population be economically unsafe makes everyone and everything unsafe.

Hungary is extremely low trust and extremely poor, yet no one fears public transit nor letting their kids wander about.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#35

Post by yieldcrv »

In my own lobbying efforts I’ve found it very easy to get bipartisan support and things passed

It comes down to psychology and understanding people

A decade ago I would have thought getting any legislative body’s attention would be difficult, but all the special interests moved to far extremes of their parties for … reasons … to pursue things that will never get passed. They just left the center unguarded and forgot how to communicate, it seems. I understand this phenomenon is a reflection of broader society, just am surprised that it has affected “shadow organizations” or professional lobbying groups that have navigated so many political environments over time. Anyway, seize opportunity when you see it.

It is kind of addicting to alter reality in places you cant even register to vote in.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#36

Post by em-bee »

vuln wrote: post #27

This law will not give "poor kids more independence", it absolves the parent or guardian of legal responsibility for their children being unsupervised. I can't be the only one that's seen the hundreds if not THOUSANDS of children (under 18) fighting, causing mayhem, attacking innocent people, and property destruction videos that circulate all over the internet. Will this help edge cases? The mom working at the pizza…

that's a different problem. or are you seriously suggesting that even teenagers not be allowed to be unsupervised until they are 18? that's ridiculous.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#37

Post by advisedwang »

vuln wrote: post #27

This law will not give "poor kids more independence", it absolves the parent or guardian of legal responsibility for their children being unsupervised. I can't be the only one that's seen the hundreds if not THOUSANDS of children (under 18) fighting, causing mayhem, attacking innocent people, and property destruction videos that circulate all over the internet. Will this help edge cases? The mom working at the pizza…

Parent's aren't being investigated for negligance because of 15-18 year olds. This is about 8 year olds. They're not the ones being reckless.

Also perhaps if young kids get a bit more freedom, they'd make more reasonable decisions when they're older? This could even help the "mayhem" you're worried about.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#38

Post by croutonwagon »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #3

This seems like a reasonable proposal to protect parents against subjective interpretation of the law. Responsible parents should be able to gauge the capabilities of their children and give them Independence based on that was capabilities opposed to fear of third-party criminalization

The problem is that there are busy bodies that will involve third parties, possibly with good intentions, but still.

For example

> But people have very different ideas of what “proper supervision” entails (as you know if you have, say, a spouse). One parent lets their kids play outside at age 6, another not till 12.

My kids play outside on their own now. At 3 and 6. My 6 year old has been doing so since about 3. Once she could follow basic rules (ie: dont go there).

At their current age we let them ride bikes in the street even, with the older in charge and both having to get well off the road the minute they see cars.

we watch them from the window but the point is to avoid intervening or helicoptering and allowing them to explore and be independent.

In fact we have to limit some media/shows that portray the parents as toys (ie: Bluey) because we notice it tends to stunt their independence and skews their overall expectations of a parent child relationship.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#39

Post by certifiedloud »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

I would say that this is an extreme and somewhat rare example. Kids here do walk themselves to school. But this does seem to be a growing concern, hence the legislation.

Re: Making It Legal to Play Outside: “Reasonable Childhood Independence” Bills

#40

Post by HDThoreaun »

pilarphosol wrote: post #31
kwhitefoot wrote: post #26

The US seems to be the only country that has this problem. Children here (Norway) walk to school on their own at the age of five or six, some of them take buses. "Ashley Smith, a foster dad, testified about being investigated for neglect because one afternoon his daughter, 8, was doing her homework on the front lawn. A passerby reported an “unsupervised” child (not knowing Ashley was actually inside). The upshot: “We…

The US is a low trust society, because of all the poverty. You really notice the difference if you travel to Europe. It turns out that having half of the population be economically unsafe makes everyone and everything unsafe.

US is a low trust society because of a culture that reveres individualism and independence to the detriment of everything else, especially community and freedom from being abused in favor of freedom to abuse. Every man for themselves means kids need to constantly be supervised.
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