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LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

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Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#171

Post by lrem »

xattt wrote: post #88
MrVandemar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that (some types of) plastics are going to be a big contributer to some of these problems. They contain a number of endocrine disrupting chemicals, and we're typing on them, mousing with them, steering our cars with them, walking on them (most carpet is plastic these days), wearing them, eating off them, drinking from them, washing outselves with them ... But yeah, the time-lag is a real problem, and couple…

> They contain a number of endocrine disrupting chemicals … Tangential, but I worry about the oleophobic materials used on touchscreen glass panels.

Anecdotal: even before the great oleophobic coatings we have now, a family member managed to be allergic to touch surfaces. That seemed to include both smartphones and laptop touchpads. Made her skin flake, obviously extremely disturbing when that happens on the tips of your most agile fingers.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#172

Post by rwnspace »

The council replaced the warm halogen bulb streetlights in our area with extremely bright LEDs that have no shielding towards houses. I slept in a ground floor bedroom with a bay window directly beneath such a light for a year. Despite installing blackout blinds as best I could, the ambient light in my room was about the same level as mid-dawn the entire time. My mental health suffered intensely almost to the point of psychosis.

LED lighting should be tightly regulated. At the moment they just appear to be getting brighter and brighter and more prevalent. I absolutely despise them.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#173

Post by zagrebian »

koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

Reminds me of that joke about a study where they shoved 20 joints into a chimpanzee’s mouth and then proclaimed that marijuana is very bad.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#174

Post by moremetadata »

wonnage wrote: post #166
koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

I’m really turned off by how there’s zero critical consideration of their quoted research. They’re just hammering you over the head with quantity. Sleep is like diet where there’s virtually no scientific consensus on even the most basic things. Plenty of studies which conclude “more research is needed”, though. That leaves people free to cherry pick and go deep into the weeds with crazy the-world-is-falling theories.…

>’m really turned off by how there’s zero critical consideration of their quoted research

I can take a variety of stimulants which would normally keep me up all night, but 5mg of Vit K2-MK4 removes enough of the calcium from my bloodstream so that it can't amplify the effects of the catecholamines and I'm asleep within 30mins, its actually better than taking melatonin or anti-histamines.

I've been more alert and observant as a car passenger whilst on 2 NHS prescribed benzodiazepines than the person driving the car! I think sometimes its a state of mind which makes its hard to sleep.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#175

Post by entropicgravity »

I had sleep problems that I recently fixed. Nothing to do with lights it turned out but everything to do with feathers. To my knowledge I've never been allergic to anything before but somehow an allergy to feathers crept into my life. Pillow and duvet, both feathered and were killing my sleep.

Synthetic stuffing for the pillow and hypoallergenic wool for the duvet and my sleep life is much better. Might be worth a try.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#176

Post by forgetfreeman »

rudolph9 wrote: post #169
forgetfreeman wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet there are all those other datapoints that also support the central thesis that you aren't cherry-picking here. So perhaps the author's point stands?

I think OPs point is people tendency to use LEDs in way that is bad for melatonin production is not the same as LEDs being inherently bad for melatonin production as the title suggests. Many LEDs have fine color spectrum and brightness setting and people should take those capabilities into mind when purchasing, especially for lights they will be using in the evening. Personally I’ve invested in hue lights and have th…

Right but this is a false dichotomy, LEDs are both inherently bad AND put to uses that enhances their detrimental characteristics.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#177

Post by derda »

rwnspace wrote: post #172

The council replaced the warm halogen bulb streetlights in our area with extremely bright LEDs that have no shielding towards houses. I slept in a ground floor bedroom with a bay window directly beneath such a light for a year. Despite installing blackout blinds as best I could, the ambient light in my room was about the same level as mid-dawn the entire time. My mental health suffered intensely almost to the point o…

It sometimes helps to call the council about this. Many streetlamps have the option for shading in certain directions to prevent your problem, but the guys installing it might not set it correctly.

My parents had the exact problem. Called up the city and actually a few days later a cherry picker appeared and there was no more light glaring into their windows.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#178

Post by ComodoHacker »

hutzlibu wrote: post #159
UberFly wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, thank you for being rational. "Yorg, turn down the campfire or we'll never get to sleep!"

Sleeping next to a bright fire though, is way more easy and cozy, than sleeping next to a bright LED flashlight. The red light (and sound) of the fire has a very soothing effect, which has probably something to do that our ancestors slept next to it since ~1 mio years. (it is still fun, just don't use a new sleeping bag, as it might get holes)

>something to do that our ancestors slept next to it since ~1 mio years

fire == safety

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#180

Post by audunw »

I'm using Philips Hue color LED bulbs in all our bedrooms, the hallway outside them, and the toilet. Since it can switch to using red+green LEDs in color mode, if you configure them with orange light dimmed to low/minimum at night, there should be essentially zero blue light. Works really well.

With smart LED bulbs you can also set them up on a schedule to light up the room very brightly in the morning and have motion sensors to turn on the light elsewhere, which is also very important for health.

Even though we've done this, I'm a bit skeptical of how terrible blue light is supposed to be. Just dim your lights lower and you should get most of the benefits. The natural light outside at night is quite blue, so I don't think it's blue light in itself that's the problem.. it's how much light there is in general and the body is just using the blue light to measure the general light level.

He's complaining about real-world LED bulb lifetime, but I've never had any of them fail on me for 8+ years, except for some specific IKEA Trådfri GU10 bulbs that had bad thermal design which they've obviously fixed, and they were replaced free of charge no question asked. It may depend on the quality of power where you live though.

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