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LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

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Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#141

Post by yeutterg »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #138
yeutterg wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, super great post. Light and health is the topic I care most about, so much so that I created the aforementioned Bedtime Bulb product to make it simpler for people to get the right light at night. I also put out a YouTube video series [0] covering the modern history of lighting, although I haven't finished it yet. We posted as many specs and graphics as we could for Bedtime Bulb on our tech specs page [1]. We're…

Neat, any chance of an E27 or bayonet for UK/NZ?

Yep, we're planning for it by Q4. If you drop me a line at hey [at] bedtimebulb [dot] com, I'll make a note to reach out directly when it's available. Thanks!

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#143

Post by marcell »

sacnoradhq wrote: post #122
marcell wrote: post #79

There is always a time lag between the introduction of a cool new technology, and the discovery of its negative effects on human health. DDT was invented in the 1940's, and it wasn't until twenty years later that people discovered its negative effects through bioaccumulation. Teflon was invented in the 1930's, and it again took decades to discover its negative effects on human health, apparently under high heat. Ciga…

Artificial lighting has existed for hundreds, if not tens of thousands, of years. People used to breathe superfines and ultrafines from daily cooking fires in nearly indoor conditions. Hell, people living in cities next to highways have no idea how they're shortening their lives if they don't have extreme MERV air filtration like I do. The AQI inside right now hovers at ~5. Outside, it varies from 15 to 200. I've bee…

> is unscientific, lacking in perspective, and offensive.

I agree it is unscientific speculation. Science doesn’t have any answers.

As one example, there are no conclusive scientific answers on why global male testosterone is declining, or why American girls are experiencing early puberty. Any plausible explanation has compelling reasons to dismiss it, and we can’t know scientifically if they are correct.

Yet we can see both clearly in the data. If you want to escape these changes, you can only get answers outside of scientific knowledge.

> offensive

There’s nothing offensive about these comparisons. When DDT was invented, we didn’t know it would bio accumulate. When iPhones were widely deployed 15 years ago, I doubt many predicted they cause sleep disruption, and potentially disrupt hormone regulation.

They are both cases of harms taking decades to show up in scientific knowledge.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#144

Post by SeanAnderson »

So if my only light at night is a huge projector screen, but it runs flux and I trim out all the blue light, is my melatonin production impaired?

It seems like the answer is no, it's fine, but I guess I am curious if it's just that easy. It feels like it shouldn't be given how serious the author writes.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#145

Post by nindalf »

UberFly wrote: post #135
koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

Yes, thank you for being rational. "Yorg, turn down the campfire or we'll never get to sleep!"

Yorg need to finish treatise on wheel. Barg turn other side.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#146

Post by bschne »

koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

Wasn't that also the study where the ebook condition used an iPad, not an e-Ink reader?

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#147

Post by otherme123 »

Psychlist wrote: post #52

The ebook reader part is kind of disturbing, I have a warm mode on mine that I always use, and the brightness set as low as it'll go (I find it too bright, but they seem to use a linear scale so there's not much range of adjustment). I have a red LED striplight above my bed for reading paper books so I will try using that for the ebook reader and see if I notice a difference. My main issue is that interesting ebooks…

I recommend you to re-read the e-reader part but paying special attention to the scales of the graphs. They are all different.

Kobo Aura peaks at 4000 counts in the blue spectrum, while the incandescent also emits about 4000 counts. The Kobo Clara only emits 2500 counts when full warm.

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#148

Post by forgetfreeman »

koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

And yet there are all those other datapoints that also support the central thesis that you aren't cherry-picking here. So perhaps the author's point stands?

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#149

Post by iforgotpassword »

bschne wrote: post #146
koverda wrote: post #107

Regarding the quoted e-book study: > Third, in the present study, the LE-eBook was set to maximum brightness throughout the 4-h reading session, whereas, by comparison, the print-book condition consisted of reflected exposure to very dim light. Yeah, max brightness is probably going to make an impact. I bet if you were in a room with a bright light reading a book, with an equivalent amount of lumens going into your e…

Wasn't that also the study where the ebook condition used an iPad, not an e-Ink reader?

What would be the point otherwise?

Re: LED lighting badly suppresses human melatonin production at night

#150

Post by forgetfreeman »

judge2020 wrote: post #90
marcell wrote: post #79

There is always a time lag between the introduction of a cool new technology, and the discovery of its negative effects on human health. DDT was invented in the 1940's, and it wasn't until twenty years later that people discovered its negative effects through bioaccumulation. Teflon was invented in the 1930's, and it again took decades to discover its negative effects on human health, apparently under high heat. Ciga…

> We don't know scientifically. Expect to find out in two decades, when its too late for you to do anything about it! The alternative is for humanity to introduce layers of bureaucracy and regulation for all new technology to prevent them from being used until it's been proven to be safe across decades of use. This is both impractical and inefficient (we might focus research on speculative tech nobody ends up caring…

Impractical from the standpoint of someone who's looking to profit off the invention surely, but explain why that should be the primary driver and not general wellbeing?
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