Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

news.ycombinator.com

11–20 of 171 posts

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#11
post #5

Upwork is a terrible platform that I would recommend everyone to stay away from as far as possible.

Which one do you recommend? I just started on upwork a few days ago, haven't got anything - it's super competitive.

I think you are going to run into problems on most of these platforms. Either issues like the on mentioned by OP, or just having to compete against people that are willing to do the job for 1/10th the price that you will do it for.

For me, I got my clients through my personal blog about programming where some people contacted me and asked to hire me. You can also just start being very active on the relevant communities in your niche and build up a reputation.

All of this takes time, but I believe it to be the most reliable long term strategy to get work from high quality clients on your own terms.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#12

If you did the work and they withheld payment, that's damages. Lawyer up.

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

I would at least get someone to write a letter. That much isn't expensive and there's always a chance they'll give in at the first sign of legal trouble.

If that doesn't work though, and the amount isn't worth a legal fight, I don't know if there's much you can do, sorry :/

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#13

If you did the work and they withheld payment, that's damages. Lawyer up.

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

It should be inexpensive to send them a letter from a lawyer. That might be enough to get them to pay you what you are owed.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#14

If you did the work and they withheld payment, that's damages. Lawyer up.

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

Depending on where you live, small claims court is an option if the amount owed is within the limits or if the max limit is acceptable for you.

Don’t underestimate the value of a well-worded, signature required snail mail, either. That usually resolves these matters since it usually escalates to the right people.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

Lots of lawyers only collect a percentage of your winnings. And courts often award lawyer costs. Find one of those lawyers. For this the incentives are aligned.

If it’s $500 no lawyer is going to go to court for $250.

I doubt they have a $20,000 upwork balance.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#16
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

Depending on where you live, small claims court is an option if the amount owed is within the limits or if the max limit is acceptable for you. Don’t underestimate the value of a well-worded, signature required snail mail, either. That usually resolves these matters since it usually escalates to the right people.

Does Upwork have a binding arbitration clause? I’d expect them to.

In which case, take them to arbitration! It’s pretty easy for you but costs them money.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#17
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of lawyers only collect a percentage of your winnings. And courts often award lawyer costs. Find one of those lawyers. For this the incentives are aligned.

If it’s $500 no lawyer is going to go to court for $250. I doubt they have a $20,000 upwork balance.

Of course. Gotta do class action. The lawyer sues on behalf of MANY people. Then collects a percentage of that. A lawyer will do this and suggest this if he sees it's possible. If not likely he won't take the case.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#18

If you did the work and they withheld payment, that's damages. Lawyer up.

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

Binding arbitration is a process I recently went through, and I think that it's excellent for two parties which are reasonably well positioned to pay for the expense of both the process and the lawyers, as well as wanting an expitied process.

The way the clause is being used to quiet individuals is pretty awful, and while I'm not a lawyer, I suggest that indeed if you have a binding arbitration clause- exercise it.

You can always retract your claim. In fact, arbitration bodies love settlements.

If you don't, then indeed, go after them in small claims court.

Upwork will have two choices: to fight you or not. They'll do the same calculation as you- the cost of the process will be expensive, and likely cost them more in legal fees then is in dispute, so they're likely to pay you to make it go away.

If you think they're going to fight, then withdraw your arbitration claim, but I suggest before even doing that, explain your situation in a letter sent by email (or registered mail) to Upwork:

https://www.upwork.com/about/contact

And explain you'd like to resolve the matter amicably, but if that's not possible, you're prepared to exercise the arbitration clause (or take them to small claims court).

This will alert their legal team, who will now explain to someone else that the matter doesn't make sense to fight, etc.

Once again I Am Not A Lawyer, but I think this is your best bet in getting the money back. But of course if you do this, you won't be working with Upwork anymore.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#19

If you did the work and they withheld payment, that's damages. Lawyer up.

well, I'm afraid I might lose more money and time in a lawyer, that what they are withholding :/

And they know this, and it is part of their business model. By their calculation, it is easier to have a few false-positives and make a few people angry than build a good system.

You have to have a lot of persistence and a lot of money (or a hungry lawyer who will work for the reward only) to fight like this, in many cases.

Now there might be some small court which has a low filing fee where you can make a case which requires them to respond, and that effort on their part may be deemed not worth the cost of just paying you to go away. So perhaps there's still something you could do practically.

Re: Tell HN: Oops Upwork did it again

#20
post #5

Upwork is a terrible platform that I would recommend everyone to stay away from as far as possible.

Which one do you recommend? I just started on upwork a few days ago, haven't got anything - it's super competitive.

I was able to scrape some clients and ending up making thousands using a normal first world rate. It is difficult to win bids because people are on there because of price. I left because they started charging for you bidding.

Bid quick, often and always go hourly so you do get paid. Clients expect the world for nothing (typical project is google for $125) so learning how to deliver within the requirements is an artform..always go hourly so you get paid something when these projects don't live up to unreasonable expectations. Be prepared for someone to scam you, try to go off platform, etc. Stay on the site.

Post reply on HN