Live data from Hacker News

The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

newyorker.com

71–80 of 137 posts

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#71

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

On Twitter recently a Nigerian business man shared some of his frustrations which I found insightful.

He started a bar. Yet later discovered that his business partner was reselling booze via the back door, pocketing this money for himself. Next, the business man started a transport business. Every driver he hired mysteriously got "robbed", which means they resold the fuel. They are just anecdotes, but if widespread, it must be near impossible to get any development going. It's constantly sabotaged by your peers.

On a TV program, I saw a Nigerian woman complaining how the city fails to maintain drinking water infrastructure, specifically pointing to a broken pipe. It was in this broken state for 13 years and as a result she had to walk an additional 30 mins for her water, every day. It's bad that government is this careless but looking at the broken pipe, I'd say its 1 hour of work to repair for a pro. So maybe crowd fund that pro with some locals and get it done?

One of my friends has a construction company that infrequently does some jobs in Africa. He really wants to do things right so exclusively hires local people and offers them double the usual pay. Guess what happens? They don't show up the next day. Literally living life by the day.

I personally visited Madagascar a few times. All over the country you see structures crumbling. You can tell somebody had the right idea and built something of value, but not even minor cheap repairs are carried out. So it's all falling apart from pure indifference.

Our guide, a local, explained how there was a tree planting project where people are literally paid per tree. Most planted a handful and went home.

I tried to help out in ecotourism by explaining how they're drastically undercharging. Make little booklets and sell them. Charge 5 times more for your drinks, they'd still be cheap by western standards.

Nobody cared. It's just baffling, this widespread apathy. Simple and effortless opportunities presented on a silver platter, and it's just met with complete indifference.

There's different ways to frame the issue. You could say they underperform by the standards of global capitalism. Another way to look at it is that some/many reject performance culture altogether.

For sure there are also other factors at play, historical, geopolitical, but a culture that "doesn't even try" is quite self-defeating.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#72

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Because Africans had to make a huge leap from primitive way of life to the modern one unlike Europeans or Asians which developed gradually over the last 3000 years or so. Some people might think it is a genetic gap that will never change but I think it can be done, it is just a long process of hundred years at best.

There is also the issue of many African countries being a mix of more than one nation. It causes a lot of tribalism and favouritism and corruption. Uganda is a good example of how they got over it but still, diversity is a problem when there is more than one major group which sets the tone. Some western countries are going down this path thinking it will benefit them but it just makes things worst.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#73
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

I think it takes generations for the right culture to develop. If you look back at early Western large-scale democracies (as opposed to the historic smaller scale Greek ones), most of them weren't all roses for the first couple of generations.

I think this is right. We see similar phenomenon in Russia and Ukraine. There are flashes of democracy sometimes but then they revert back to what they've always known. In the case of Russia/Ukraine it's the legacy of feudalism + strong ruler syndrome which was coopted by communism and which they still have not emerged from.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#74

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

You left out the rape stats. Last I checked, someone was murdered approx every 25 mins, and someone was raped approx every 15 mins.

Surely rape has to far more than about twice as common as murder?

Looking at US stats the homicide rate is 0.007% and sexual assault 0.1% per year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#75
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying it's actually good to abuse people because it makes the gene pool stronger in some abstract way?

No I am just wondering why is this largely ignored

It's ignored because it's horrifically inhumane and also probably not even true. If you earnestly have this thought, I urge you to seek help from a psychiatrist.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#76

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

No. Plenty of white majority countries face the same problems. Corruption, incompetence and infighting are weapons disguised to look like "human nature" while someone else is sucking your blood.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Perhaps one thing to say is that not that many countries developed in general in the last hundred years or so, depending on how you count them. It seems there isn’t really an easy path to development and many African countries started a very poor quite recently without the smoothest transition out of colonialism. You might count a few Caribbean countries for your initial question, eg the Bahamas is 90% black and has…

Devil's Advocate - in 1954, South Korea was at least as poor as most of Sub-Saharan Africa, if not poorer.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#78
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Where the heck did you get the idea this is restricted to black majority countries? Like, check out the history of Poland some time. The European powers generally conquered, colonised or bullied wherever they could. Some countries like Vietnam recovered well, others like Ethiopia did not.

It’s historically not a concept without merit. The needlessly cruel treatment of Haiti is probably the canonical example.

I’d suggest reading about General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas. The book “Black Count” is worth reading.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#79
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

No. Plenty of white majority countries face the same problems. Corruption, incompetence and infighting are weapons disguised to look like "human nature" while someone else is sucking your blood.

Seems like a good place to mention South Africa is running joint exercises with China and Russia.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#80
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps one thing to say is that not that many countries developed in general in the last hundred years or so, depending on how you count them. It seems there isn’t really an easy path to development and many African countries started a very poor quite recently without the smoothest transition out of colonialism. You might count a few Caribbean countries for your initial question, eg the Bahamas is 90% black and has…

Devil's Advocate - in 1954, South Korea was at least as poor as most of Sub-Saharan Africa, if not poorer.

Singapore
Post reply on HN