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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

271–280 of 689 posts

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#271
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a daughter, I mostly agree. I like to remind people teenagers are not "little" adults, they lack full developed brains, and extremely susceptible to peer pressure. I restrict my kids social media very tightly, and make sure they have lots of real world activities and real world influences.

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I'll do whatever it takes for my kids, and I can accept the consequences. I can assure you I've thought about it.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#272
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the generations are a bit dated - https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-... > Social media creates a world for Lucy where A) what everyone else is doing is very out in the open, B) most people present an inflated version of their own existence, and C) the people who chime in the most about their careers are usually those whose careers (or relationships) are going the best, while struggling…

> the people who chime in the most about their careers are usually those whose careers (or relationships) are going the best I'm skeptical about this. I suspect that it's more likely that such people are presenting an image of their lives that is much better than the reality. In my experience, people who are living great lives rarely feel the need to tell everyone how great their lives are. Even when they're teenager…

“Career (superficially?) going great” doesn’t imply “living a great life”. Communicating the former merely gives the (superficial) impression of the latter. And some of those chasing a “great” career are doing so because they aren’t otherwise fulfilled. In any case, among those who communicate about their career/life, there will be a bias towards communicating a successful career/life.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#274

Here's a question I don't know the answer to. How does an already depressed and dysphoric trans person --- who doesn't know they're trans --- with unsupportive parents ever, ever find out what the cause of their depression is without a robust network of connection to people from elsewhere? Let's assume they live in a deeply rural area in which variant sexualities and genders are frowned upon. They are the only person…

Most of them grow out of it.[1][2] [1] https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/441784/the-controversial-re... [2] https://statsforgender.org/desistance/

When you look into why they "grow out of it," it's usually because the world is so inhospitable to them that they cannot bear it. [0] The proportion that detrans because they realized they were wrong is estimated at 2.4%. [0]

Also, previous studies that look into detransition have been methodologically wanting. [1]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8213007/ [1] https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2021-80256-001.pdf

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#275
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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This is such a ridiculously offensive argument to make. You're saying that every living male who is depressed is depressed because he's an incel waiting for his perfect tradwife?

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#276
post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

It must be frustrating to see this problem approaching and not knowing what to do. I wonder if at some point the only way out is to radically change one's family's lifestyle. Maybe homeschooling, very limited technology at home, living in a community with like-minded people, something like that?

There is a reason homeschooling pods are in fashion with middle class and above right now.

It's a growing trend.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#277
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Boys have more capacity to transcend social media's focus on image and beauty by finding other ways to be valued as human beings. Before absconding boys from harm, maybe we should check twice on their health. They are often forgotten or their difficulties brushed off in studies. How are addictions progressing? Obesity maybe? Why are they all on 9Gag? Let’s check their level of racism and misogyny, it might be a pro…

Boys are for sure not exempt from harm, but the harm seems to be as a result of equity: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo... > “Today in America, women expect more from men,” Levant said, “and unfortunately, so many men don’t have more to give.” Powerful stuff.

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#278

> Boys are doing badly too, but their rates of depression and anxiety are not as high, and their increases since 2011 are smaller. Bullshit. These numbers are self reported and show exactly the opposite of reality. Boys aged 15-24 are about four times [0] more likely than girls to die by their own hands, so clearly relying on self reported cases of mental illness is not very helpful and is likely to shift focus away…

You are comparing two different metrics: depression and anxiety per se on the one hand, and successful suicide attempts on the other. It can be true both that rates of depression are higher in girls than in boys and that rates of suicide are higher in boys and in girls.

Furthermore, while in that age group boys are more than 4 times as likely than girls to take their own lives as of now, the question is whether that proportion was the same before the advent of social media. For instance, maybe at that time boys were 10 times more likely to do it, which may support the hypothesis that social media is to blame—or maybe they were only twice likely, which would be evidence against it.

Finally, while depression and anxiety may be increasing in both boys and girls, I understand that Haidt is pointing out that these disorders are increasing faster in girls than boys.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#279

> Boys are doing badly too, but their rates of depression and anxiety are not as high, and their increases since 2011 are smaller. Bullshit. These numbers are self reported and show exactly the opposite of reality. Boys aged 15-24 are about four times [0] more likely than girls to die by their own hands, so clearly relying on self reported cases of mental illness is not very helpful and is likely to shift focus away…

There is a huge social stigma for boys and men to admit negative feelings- even to themselves. This leads to the widespread assumption or observation that most mental health issues predominately affect only women. In reality, denying and suppressing the issue makes it much worse, and prevents people from taking actions that might help.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#280
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the generations are a bit dated - https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-... > Social media creates a world for Lucy where A) what everyone else is doing is very out in the open, B) most people present an inflated version of their own existence, and C) the people who chime in the most about their careers are usually those whose careers (or relationships) are going the best, while struggling…

I'm not convinced that any of that is bad. >the people who chime in the most about their careers are those whose careers (and relationships) are going the best As it should be. Only a very small minority of people have careers or relationships worth emulating, and they should be setting examples for everyone else to aspire to. Lucy is upset because she knows that she can do better. She sees people who are no smarter…

Most people's social animal brains cannot really deal with being consistently shown to be low status individuals without starting to act like low status individuals: defensively and risk-aversely.

This is an unconscious reflex, you cannot control how anyone perceives your social worth, including yourself.

The problem is that it tends to be a vicious circle: once you start behaving in a weak way due to illusions, people will perceive you negatively and it will become harder to bounce back for real.

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