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The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

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Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#41

Post by boeingUH60 »

cpursley wrote: post #37
boeingUH60 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

Isn't Nigeria one of the fastest growing countries in the world right now? I haven't visited but I often watch videos about it (and other upcoming African nations) and it seems like Nigeria is on the path to greatness!

We were up until one former military dictator assumed Presidency in a democratic election in 2015, and all the progress has been erased, plus more.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#42

Post by PicassoCTs »

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

South africa profited like many others, from the cold-war, when the us propped up the "border" wall states (germany,austria, italy, turkey, south-korea and japan). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia#Independence

With the wind down of the cold war, all that stopped and the ANC, which was on the loosing side of the cold-war ideologically, had to pivot, while all support was cut. It did not go very well, but they also were delt a lousy hand to start with.

Social Rebel groups seem to have a tendency to facilitate the rise of gangsters, profiteers and sadists to power, once they are victorious. Think of stalin, a little ruthless gangster, who basically ran the sovjet union like a gang kept in eternal turmoil and panic.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#43

Post by concordDance »

SadTrombone wrote: post #39
concordDance wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Musk somehow inherited $44 billion from his still-living father's stake in an Emerald mine said father bought for under a $100k?

Unless I'm missing an edit, that's not remotely what they're saying.

How would you interpret what their point is?

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#44

Post by heywherelogingo »

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

You left out the rape stats. Last I checked, someone was murdered approx every 25 mins, and someone was raped approx every 15 mins.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#45

Post by emmelaich »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23
wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

My guess is that it's old tribal alliances vs what is best for a country.

... which is not special to Africa particularly. But Western Europe went through this centuries ago. It is said that the past is another country. The reverse is true.

There are other factors like fewer geographical separations. Lesotho and Namibia are more stable now because they are enclosed by mountains and separated from others by desert respectively.

Imagine if there was no water separating England and the European continent. There probably would not be an England. Or rather, no UK.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#46

Post by superdeeda »

concordDance wrote: post #32
gowld wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarian governments are similar to economic bubbles (balloons). They push out everything better and then leave a mess when they collapse. Pretty much everything on GPs list was a problem during apartheid era as well, or caused by it.

There was 30% unemployment in apartheid era? (Definitely agree with your first paragraph)

It's estimated to have been around 20% [1], but there isn't an official number. The participation rate was lower because non-white people were limited in terms of where they were allowed to go, live and work.

[1] https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w13167/w131...

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#47

Post by heywherelogingo »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #23
wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

I've always wondered why there's no black-majority country that's prosperous...it's always the same story of corruption, incompetence, and/or infighting. Now, before anyone brings out the pitchforks, I'm a black African residing in Nigeria...I'm just saying that we really have to do better than this.

"Africa time" was prevalent when I lived there. I also saw recently that critical race theory considers being on time to be characteristic of white supremacy, but I know nothing of CRT so I'm not getting into a discussion on that; just seemed a connection.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#48

Post by Avshalom »

concordDance wrote: post #43
SadTrombone wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I'm missing an edit, that's not remotely what they're saying.

How would you interpret what their point is?

there isn't a point, it was a joke, apartheid was bad, but it gave us Elon Musk (who, is implied to also be bad).

The idea that we should continue apartheid, so that we can get more Musks is then ironic or sarcastic.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#49

Post by archsurface »

superdeeda wrote: post #35
wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

"Afrikaans Paramilitary groups" was basically what Apartheid was, only state sanctioned. > Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. It's like saying COVID rates grew XXX% in 2020 due to some new government. Yes, SA's HIV rate is absolutely awful, but HIV hardly existed before the end of Apartheid.

No, it's not like saying that - the health minister had the nickname Dr Beetroot for her ridiculous views in HIV/AIDS.

Re: The dystopian underworld of South Africa’s illegal gold mines

#50

Post by buyx »

wonderwonder wrote: post #19

Was a well written article. Pretty amazing contrast in the way various people are forced to live. While obviously not great for black people during apartheid South Africa's government really fell apart afterwards. Hiv infection rates rose from 3% to 18% of the adult population. Top 10 in the world for murder rates. 30% unemployment rate. Rolling blackouts. Afrikaans Paramilitary groups. Massive organized criminal org…

The article makes it clear that the miners are mostly illegal immigrants from neighbouring countries.

The country has reasonably strong labour laws, but employers, who never really moved beyond the cheap servile labour model under apartheid hate worker rights (which aren’t really that strong by world standards). So they hire undocumented workers from other African countries. This contributes to the huge unemployment rate amongst South African citizens.

Kidnapping for ransom, which was unheard of ten years ago, has become a thing because of Mozambican and Pakistani crime syndicates.

It’s one of a myriad of problems in the country, but the fact is that any attempts to control the borders have been decried as “xenophobia” by elites. Interestingly, SA white conservative types, who rally for support from anti-immigration people overseas, support illegal immigration in South Africa (along with most upper middle-class people), since it keeps labour costs down, and they hold black South Africans in contempt.

There’s also been a general collapse in state capacity: the recent explosion in Boksburg where the police never bothered pitching up at the scene of a leaking LPG/propane truck to control bystanders led to 40 deaths, is indicative of the sort of don’t-give-a-damn attitude of most state institutions.

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