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Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#171

Post by gen220 »

Is the inevitable conclusion of this vein of research some public health program akin to the one that shackled big tobacco?

The link between (early) smoking and cancer seems like it was about as difficult to measure as the link between (early) social media use and mental illness, but we have better tools for collecting and analyzing data in 2023.

There's many gradations between what we have today ("Hey! How old are you? Under 13? Try again later") and requiring new accounts to be linked to a government ID attesting a certain age, but it does feel like the norm today might hem too close to reckless abandonment.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#172

Post by thfuran »

ljm wrote: post #143
warner25 wrote: post #2

I'm still reading it, but this is great so far. As a father to four little girls, though, it makes me feel really defeated. I can already see that social media has eroded my wife's mental health. I just don't know what to do in the next few years when our girls approach the age when everyone else will get an iPhone and have an Instagram account. I want to say no, but that leads to many other issues, including what th…

I would contest one point in the article, and I admit this is dependent on where you live: > But social media is very different because it transforms social life for everyone, even for those who don’t use social media, whereas sugar consumption just harms the consumer. In countries with single-payer healthcare (or socialised healthcare), it's not true that it harms only the consumer. If it turns into obesity, diabete…

>This is a rephrasing of the argument against smoking, where the argument that was smoking harms nobody else, and the counter was that smokers created a healthcare burden.

Smoking also has much more direct second hand effects from releasing smoke into the area of the smoker. Poor diet lack such effects.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#174

Post by moremetadata »

oomemoryerror wrote: post #149
moremetadata wrote: post #116

Social media is a psychological weapon that leaves no physical evidence which is why the state is making a big play on mental health. Its a control mechanism on the population because the state deliberately doesn't teach law and parents cant be relied upon, so social media can also be a way to psychological and biologically profile people before choosing to radicalise individuals, set them up for blackmail, or have t…

Have you ever read “The Chaos Machine” by Max Fisher?

No, but a precis on it suggests its the algorithms at fault, much like this Ted talk I have seen. https://www.ted.com/talks/eli_pariser_beware_online_filter_b...

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#175

Post by oblio »

autoexec wrote: post #131
Loughla wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that's meant to be funny, but the Amish community is a nightmare, from the outside looking in, very closely. I live in an area where there is a large Amish community; they outnumber "English" about 4:1. Patriarchy in all decisions. The old men make choices for families based on what they know is best, and you follow that rule, regardless of your own views. Women are not allowed a voice in formal decisions. Chi…

> You get up to an 8th grade education and nothing more...Imagine being in your 30's, with just an 8th grade education This at least would be a massive improvement for most people in the US who only read at a 6th grade level and have a comparable level of skill in math and science. https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/ https://people.com/parents/most-parents-math-and-science-kno...

You're assuming that the average Amish are great at school, which based on nost communities around the world, is most likely false.

I.e. the average highschool graduate probably reads at 6th grade level but the average middle school graduate probably only reads at 5th or 4th grade level is a reasonable assumption.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#176

Post by floren »

jsonne wrote: post #71

Anecdotally I removed all social media from my phone recently and I only am using Twitter for work on desktop. My mood has improved dramatically and my focus is improving. Towards the end I found myself getting angry at posts that showed curated idyllic lives and realized that it's all really a facade. To that end the last post I saw on Tiktok before deleting it basically said that social media is so insidious becaus…

> social media is so insidious because it is both the sickness and the cure. You feel bad and then you feel better ad nauseum

Go to an AA or NA meeting and you can hear the same stories.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#177

Post by jrumbut »

andrewflnr wrote: post #118
somethoughts wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One strategy that should help is to load them up on extracurriculars. Keep them busy with extra math tutoring (russian school of math, kumon, etc.) and physically active in a healthy way with enough sleep (swimming, track, soccer). That way there is not a lot of dwell time to be depressed about missing out on stuff. Also taking away privileges due to not passing grades, not keeping up with math tutoring, etc. is a gr…

So much for the "play based childhood", then. (And no, of course assigned sports don't count)

In another thread I mentioned the need for organized (in the sense of same place, same time) unstructured activity. Gather at the basketball court, if practice or a game break out that's good, if not that's OK.

It seems like everyone wins in that scenario, it's healthy but playful and low stress while accommodating parents' need for scheduling.

Is such a thing common? I don't hear about it much.

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#178

Post by faeriechangling »

flerchin wrote: post #19
barbazoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be frustrating to see this problem approaching and not knowing what to do. I wonder if at some point the only way out is to radically change one's family's lifestyle. Maybe homeschooling, very limited technology at home, living in a community with like-minded people, something like that?

Let's find a solution that does not involve expanding the Amish model.

The ridiculous Amish model of being conservative with new technology and considering as a community if it has benefit to the society before introducing it?

Inconceivable. If a new technology comes out, we need to adopt it in 0.1 seconds, or we'll be Stone Age caveman losers!

Re: Social media is a cause, not a correlate, of mental illness in teen girls

#179

Post by snerbles »

dmonitor wrote: post #45
barbazoo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be frustrating to see this problem approaching and not knowing what to do. I wonder if at some point the only way out is to radically change one's family's lifestyle. Maybe homeschooling, very limited technology at home, living in a community with like-minded people, something like that?

this model breaks down because you have to enter society eventually. transitioning from homeschooling to highschool junior year and then into a large university was very difficult in my personal experience.

I've been through the whole gamut.

Homeschooling to private middle school was rough, mainly in my social circle going from a polite mixed-age group to a crass morass of the local rich kids. 18 months of that did more for my toilet humor repertoire than four years in the military.

Private to rural public school was a bit more relaxed. Less fistfights and emotional distress, but the academics were truly lacking - the district didn't have any more course material beyond Algebra 2 so I spent 8th grade math as a study hall. Chill, but ultimately wasted time.

Switched to a public charter for high school, and did a combination of home study and local community college courses. By that point I knew what I was "missing" from regular institutional education and was fine with the trade-off.

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