Most young men are single. Most young women are not • Hacker News Board

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#101

Post by medvezhenok » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:33 PM UTC

goethes_kind wrote: post #80

wollyhood wrote: post #43

I sincerely believe that I am a respectful, reasonably attractive, healthy, financially successful and emotionally mature person. I found dating so hopelessly difficult in America, that I decided to literally learn another language and relocate to another country. I felt like I had no future in America because of that. The difference where I am now is night and day. I have had to decline more dates and advances, whic…

If you have many women as friends you are doing something good and bad at the same time. The good is that you can meet women and can interact with them and can get them to trust you. The bad is that you somehow give off all the wrong signals. Then you go abroad and you think the women are different, but they aren't. I have lived in three countries. You just have a higher value as an American man abroad. Ironically, t…

You should always strive to maximize your value in the dating market - any other strategy is self-defeating (note that you can settle after maximizing - that is totally allowed). That means you should try to meet women doing activities you excel at (relative to other people), demonstrating leadership qualities (giving talks at conferences, for ex.) or in GP's case, moving abroad. I'm not sure how the people you attract by doing these things are any more superficial than the rest; attraction to status-displaying qualities like this is built into the human genetics and goes way beyond intellectualization.

Basically we think that we are advanced apes, but in practice we're really very fancy peacocks with brains :) Note that social status/leadership quality is actually more important than income (there's lots of anecdotal data that women would prefer a doctor over an engineer making the same income, because of social connotations).

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#102

Post by runsWphotons » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:36 PM UTC

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #45

runsWphotons wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is definitely surprising...a big change in last 5-10 years. Women actually dont prefer a v large age gap--less than men and on the order of 2-3 years. Age def explains some of this statistic but isnt enough to explain it all. This is probably also result of slight harem effect and of people categorising relationships differently (man thinks he is single, woman thinks its monogamous etc).

Well, it's not exactly about age per se from either side. If we're going by the crass (but largely true) stereotypes, then men are driven by looks, and women (notwithstanding any "bad boy" dating inclination) are more looking for a protector/provider (i.e. maturity/money). Maybe with more men living with parents due to economy/housing/etc, this has an effect.

yes as i said age has something to do with this, maybe even the big effect, but probably doesnt explain the whole change. And if women are dating men with a larger age gap than before because of the factors you stated (taking men longer to get money, basically), it is against their stated preferences of age gap, so they are compromising more than before. And of course men are taking longer to get to "maturity/money" stage in some part bc of financial competition from young women, so this interesting dynamic.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#103

Post by rayiner » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:37 PM UTC

The article is written in a weird way which suggests that women are pursuing better options and are happy about that, but statistics don’t bear that out. Self-reported life satisfaction for women has been declining since the 1970s: https://docs.iza.org/dp4200.pdf

Something I’ve noticed is that American parents of the boomer generation have pretty much abdicated their role in getting younger people paired up. Young people don’t know what they need in a partner (how could they, they don’t have the experience) and aren’t good at estimating their own market value. As an immigrant I mocked the idea of arranged marriage when I was young, but most of my cousins had marriages that were facilitated to some degree and most ended up with good matches. If my boys aren’t hitched up by 30 I’m going to seriously consider the option.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#104

Post by Dalewyn » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

arisbe__ wrote: post #81

Dalewyn wrote: post #19

The article poses the situation as a problem, and I say "screw that noise" (pun intended) with my anecdote: I'm a man now in my mid-30s, and I cannot god damn wait until I'm old enough to be out of the "marriage market" so everyone stops fucking pestering me about marriage. I find absolutely no appeal in the concept. The legal and social risks of associating with women beyond friendships are simply not worth it. I al…

So you wish you had never been born? Isn't that just a theoretical-linguistic proposition and not a truely held belief? We are after all stratified beings. That is it seems you are just venting or virtue signaling (that is still OK). Recently my life has acquired some properties that many might class as "hell on Earth". It doesn't bother me though, I will always be grateful to be breathing as I am a human being. I me…

>So you wish you had never been born?

Were I given a choice in the matter with the ability to make an informed decision, I would choose not to.

That's not what happens, of course. So I'll just enjoy my time here and respect the decisions my parents made. My parents made theirs, and I will make mine.

>I mean if you lived I'm the days of our prehistoric hunter gatherer ancestors and didnt know if you would starve to death next Winter would you be so anti life?

Absolutely. Given the willpower to overcome natural instincts and desires, I would choose to not have kids because why would I intentionally want them to experience even the possibility of starving to death in the Winter?

It's fortunate that the world has become a much better place since then, but at least for me the bar is still not low enough to convince me.

>we have a responsibility to society.

I couldn't care less whether humanity thrives, survives, or goes extinct. Not like anything I do would make a difference anyway, of course. My only duty to society is to not overtly bother or violate anyone, that's it.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#105

Post by tucnak » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:39 PM UTC

Disclaimer: I'm a non-American young adult in a longstanding relationship with a girl of my age.

Having read the article, I felt like the writing severely lacked in clarity & posed the problem as ultimately men's fault. The numerous quotes appealing to what I can only read as "hot takes" produced by some kind of authority only reinforce this:

> Younger men are largely responsible for rising rates of mass shootings, a trend some researchers link to their growing social isolation.

Why bring up this random correlation if not to assign blame by association? Already very hard to give this piece benefit of the doubt it probably deserves.

> “Women don’t need to be in long-term relationships. They don’t need to be married. They’d rather go to brunch with friends than have a horrible date,”

Casually throwing "horrible date" there; from my experience men are just as likely to prefer a friendly occasion to a "horrible date." In this context, what's really implied is that young men are seen by young women as horrible so the detachment effects is men's, if anybody's fault; quite an over-reaching argument.

> “Today in America, women expect more from men,” Levant said, “and unfortunately, so many men don’t have more to give.”

What is the point, again?

> “Men are less naturally relational than women,” said Richard Reeves, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution

Poorly worded and what's the point, anyway? Natural presupposition wouldn't happen to explain the observed effects now would it?

> “Women form friendships with each other that are emotionally intimate, whereas men do not,” Levant said

Perhaps when asked men wouldn't describe their relationships as "emotionally intimate" and I wouldn't expect my friends to be crying and exposing themselves in a outwards way by default but it doesn't mean that the relationships we have do not lend to the emotional component, reward emotional support and sincerity.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#106

Post by medvezhenok » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:40 PM UTC

epolanski wrote: post #79

I think that the biggest difference from the past is that mental health of young adults is deteriorating and that it is impacting men more than women. This is largely driven by the isolation brought by modern technologies but also changes in society, as women became more empowered they also rose their standards which once were to merely be able to provide for the family. Among the complains of my female friends menta…

I think that the amount of opportunities to display masculinity (in a useful way) has shrunk. That has been true ever since we moved off of family farms (where the man did visibly useful work by working on the farm - work that the woman could not do). I think that's what started the re-negotiation of the balance of the sexes, and we're still digesting through that (~150 years later).

The other opportunities for masculinity: war, times of conflict, times when people are afraid, etc. The more that people feel "safe", the more the male identity as a protector is diminished.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#107

Post by holler » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:40 PM UTC

Dalewyn wrote: post #19

The article poses the situation as a problem, and I say "screw that noise" (pun intended) with my anecdote: I'm a man now in my mid-30s, and I cannot god damn wait until I'm old enough to be out of the "marriage market" so everyone stops fucking pestering me about marriage. I find absolutely no appeal in the concept. The legal and social risks of associating with women beyond friendships are simply not worth it. I al…

What a sad and cynical view of life. All the negatives you mention are natural parts of living, of being alive, of the circle of life.

You're leaving out all of the joy, the triumph, the beauty, and the awe of having a brief moment of consciousness on this planet, in this universe.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#108

Post by Dalewyn » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

JesusLovesEwe wrote: post #87

Dalewyn wrote: post #19

The article poses the situation as a problem, and I say "screw that noise" (pun intended) with my anecdote: I'm a man now in my mid-30s, and I cannot god damn wait until I'm old enough to be out of the "marriage market" so everyone stops fucking pestering me about marriage. I find absolutely no appeal in the concept. The legal and social risks of associating with women beyond friendships are simply not worth it. I al…

[flagged]

>you'll look at them with envy

I'm apathetic, not envious. I couldn't care less about getting married, much less what others do with their lives.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#109

Post by goethes_kind » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

fbernier wrote: post #82

GalenErso wrote: post #11

A man who is financially autonomous, practices basic hygiene and grooming, wears tasteful clothing, and approaches women with respect and manners has nothing to worry about. You don't need to make 6 figures, to be 6 feet tall, to have the body of The Rock or 2004 Brad Pitt's face. Having one interesting hobby is also a huge plus, even if it's as simple as hiking or jogging. You just need to be minimally interesting.…

Exactly this. I've been single for four months at 27 and dated a lot during that time and I noticed that the bar is set _so low_ to place yourself as a better candidate than, let's say 80% of other men, that's it's simply scary. Most men have literally nothing interesting to offer for a relationship. When you look at their situation from an objective point of view it's so obvious why they remain single and yet most a…

Most men who have problems in this area are not going on dates. They are not even meeting women. I do not think it has much to do with hobbies.

Re: Most young men are single. Most young women are not

#110

Post by Ozzie_osman » Wed, Feb 22, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

We have a loneliness epidemic and we have just invented language models that are exceedingly good at acting like humans and even mimic emotions and personality (and even when we do our best to try and prevent them from showing emotion, it still bleeds through).

I've tried Replika and some of these other AI friends (who are more and more pivoting to being AI girlfriends), and they seem so far from state of the art. My guess is we're a few months away from gpt3-level (or better) chatbots aimed less and productivity and information and more at romance/sex/friendship and its going to change the world as we know it.