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Why I'm a Pirate

ploum.net

521–527 of 527 posts

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've talked about this before on HN ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3366032 ), but I think a big problem with these discussions is people seem to assume, as an axiom, that allowing authors to control downstream copying is natural. It isn't - this principle was invented around the time the printing press made mass production of creative works possible, for reasons which were very good at the time, but which may…

Bravo. > a big problem with these discussions is people seem to assume, as an axiom, that allowing authors to control downstream copying is natural. It isn't But neither is physical ownership of things or land. We could well go back to letting the 'free market' sort it out, or conversely split everything evenly and legalize any maneuvers to do so. I'm not arguing that physical and digital goods are the same, but rath…

> Not sure about the phrasing of that argument. If female nurses demanded more wages than male ones, should this opinion be given 95% of the weight?

Never mind, yes: It should be decided in exactly this democratic way. In both cases though, we should hope that the majority is well-informed enough to make a decision. (Oh BTW, democratic decisions are not an axiomatic 'right thing' either, you can have nice discussions about this in China :) )

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#522
post #145
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider this: You commision a composer to write a personal song to celebrate you at your anniverseray. You use the song, but decline to pay because the composer can keep a copy of the song, and therefore you are not really taking anything from him. But clearly you have put him in a worse position by using his work without pay - after all he could have done something else with his time and talent.

Interesting hypothetical, but I think there is a difference between specifically asking for a service (and possibly creating a contract) and not paying vs sharing a copy of a work already produced. Otherwise, there are loads of services you can argue against paying for in that way.

Perhaps it was a bad example, but my point was that the argument that "piracy is not taking anyting away" assumes that IP is created in a vaccuum without consideration of the potential audience. This is rarely the case. Production of movies, music etc. is a risky investment with the expectation that if people enjoy the product they will pay. If nobody enjoys it, fair enough, bad investment. But if people do enjoy it, but still don't pay, clearly this is harming the creators.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can't just copy a car." Yup! And that's why comparing digital piracy with car theft is also equally silly. Note, I don't have a hard stance on this. Counterfeiting drugs, etc. is wrong for obvious reasons. Coming up with a similar argument for entertainment media is a bit less tenable. When the MPAA and RIAA cede the moral high ground by acting like idiots (suing 12-year olds, pushing for high criminal charges,…

Why is "counterfeiting drugs" obviously wrong? Plenty of developing nations counterfeit drugs to avoid paying ridiculous prices for drug IP. http://donttradeourlivesaway.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/brazil...

The article talks about generic drugs, which are off-patent drugs, and completely okay.

Problem with counter-feit drugs is the usual quality checks aren't present. This can lead to ineffective or even harmful drugs that patients take while thinking they are getting the real thing.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we did. It's called /the internet/, (or euphamistically, "piracy") that's what all this fuss is about. Catch up, man!

I see, now I understand. Nobody had to design or program any of those websites or other online content. It just sprang into existence organically! Gosh I am behind the times.

There was a time, not that long ago, when there was no such thing as recorded music or films. People just performed the music live. Then one day, the phonograph was invented, and thomas edison paid musicians to perform in front of a phonograph recording machine. The musicians were happy, because they got paid for a performance. Thomas Edison was happy, because he got to make a gajillian zillion dollars off of that artists performance using his "automated creativity machine". Since then the major advance has been that record companies have worked out how to not bother paying the musicians for that original recorded performance.

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we did. It's called /the internet/, (or euphamistically, "piracy") that's what all this fuss is about. Catch up, man!

I see, now I understand. Nobody had to design or program any of those websites or other online content. It just sprang into existence organically! Gosh I am behind the times.

Also, I missed this before, but... ARE YOU SERIOUSLY ADVOCATING SLAVERY?!

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#526
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know just because you keep repeating the same strawmen it doesn't make them more true. If you cant see the difference between a performance and copying the performance to re-sell it, then frankly there isn't much to discuss.

Just in case you're not noticing it (and I can understand why you wouldn't), your involvement on this topic pretty much consists of: - offering an argument, - being shown how it is flawed, and then - ignoring the explanation you were just given, to fall back on a variant of "copying is free". I think a lot of us readers would prefer it if you engage the arguments given to you.

Well apparently quite a few agree with what I am saying based on the number of upvotes I have.

What haven't I addressed? Your flawed premise that lumberjacking can be compared to selling CDs?

Re: Why I'm a Pirate

#527
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case you're not noticing it (and I can understand why you wouldn't), your involvement on this topic pretty much consists of: - offering an argument, - being shown how it is flawed, and then - ignoring the explanation you were just given, to fall back on a variant of "copying is free". I think a lot of us readers would prefer it if you engage the arguments given to you.

Well apparently quite a few agree with what I am saying based on the number of upvotes I have. What haven't I addressed? Your flawed premise that lumberjacking can be compared to selling CDs?

I can't see the rating that posts other than mine have. In any case, in this discussion, many of your comments (though not in this specific exchange with me) are grayed out (meaning non-positive rating).

What you haven't addressed is your inability to consistently apply your claims about non-IP-reliant methods of art production. Here's what happened:

You post (the one right before my first reply), showing indifference to the prospect of it being impossible to make a monetary profit from production of intellctual works.

Paraphrasing your comment, you say,: Real artists don't work for profit, so it's actually a good thing if production of movies, books, etc cannot earn a monetary profit due to people not respecting IP claims.

Then, I come back, and ask if you are so indifferent to the unprofitability of production of something else people want being rendered unprofitable due to widespread refusal to recognize rights therein, using the example of lumberjacking.

Due to your apparent inability to follow chains of logic beyond a certain depth, you felt it was sufficient to cite one superficial difference betweeen lumberjacking and creation of intellectual works, and considered it "case closed" and duh why can't this idiot see that they're different.

What you don't understand (almost certainly due to an unwillingness to) is that this difference, while true, does not invalidate the analogy I was drawing, because they are not different in the relevant aspects. What aspects?

1) In both cases, there would be a bad incentive effect on the valuable activity: the lumberjacking and intellectual works that need a profit incentive to produce, won't be.

2) In both cases, you can find some circuitous, inefficient way to reproduce the profitability that would otherwise come from simply recognizing rights therein.

In response to both of these similarities, and due to your inability to consistently apply the principles you advocate, you simply fall back on, "art can be copied, cutting a tree down can't". And that's true. But it means precisely nothing in terms of the above similarities.

Quite frankly, it's frustrating when you keep falling back on your standard line that they're different (in a narrow way), completely obvlivious to how it contradicts what you just said ("who cares if socially-beneficial activity X can't turn a profit [except by circuitous routes]?"). I expect better from people I debate with, especially on HN.

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