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World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

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Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#191

Post by MomoXenosaga »

lettergram wrote: post #172
mobiledev2014 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s baffling. Nobody should have to work 60 hours a week and be happy about it, doesn’t matter when the hours are

Lol for almost all human history working all a day was the norm. I don’t necessarily have to do that much work, but I want to get ahead. Most people I grew up with work 40-70hrs a week, often two to three jobs. It’s natural for me to work that much. I don’t even blink at it. What else would you do? Play video games, watch tv, “party”? I can accomplish and build things and spend the rest of the time with family and fr…

Just don't be one of those managers that expects everyone else to give a shit about the company and all is good.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#192

Post by cf-d-ycom »

I'd like to be proven wrong on this point, but it feels to me that this trend is two things, individuals and companies reaping the benefits of technological improvements towards efficiency, and _ALSO_ the revealing redundancy of more and more work.

It seems to me that the negotiating power of workers is largely connected to the dependency of the people that hired them to the output of those workers. As that dependency diminishes (ie. by realising technological advancement and thereby reducing work hours from 5 days to 4 days for example), it seems unlikely that these improved benefits will flow to the workers, as the required* negotiating power to get them is vanishing.

*required in the sense that going on strike becomes much less powerful, and with technological advancements in hiring/remote work, it increases the possibility of replacing the striking workers.

Also, this is largely going to affect the pyjama-laptop class, not anyone that actually needs to be somewhere, and perhaps is revealing that they have largely filled positions they could be significantly reduced.

I'm guessing the coming global recession(that the tech layoffs imply are coming to at least that sector) should be a way to see if these predictions are any where close to right, or just nonsense rambling.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#193

Post by sjtgraham »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

> > My conclusions after observing a ton of people in technical and nontechnical jobs is that beyond working 20-25 hours a week, having people do more is useless...

If there are people who can't run a mile and those who can run over 100, what makes you think everyone universally can sustain 20-25 hours of focussed work per week?

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#194

Post by lettergram »

piva00 wrote: post #114
lettergram wrote: post #85

Good, you all work 4 days and I’ll work my standard 6x10 6 days, 10hrs a day. When people get fired presumably I’ll still be standing. When promotion time comes around, the person who does the most will get the promotion. When bonus time comes, I’ll have the most done. You can try to regulate day(s), but if there’s people willing to work more they’ll set the standard.

What a clear example of one of Paulo Freire's best insights: "When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor." Go on with your career ladder game, not everyone in humanity praise that as much as you. On the contrary, lots will see you as either naive or moronic. Your 6x10 work schedule is being spent on creating... A chatbot.

> Go on with your career ladder game, not everyone in humanity praise that as much as you. On the contrary, lots will see you as either naive or moronic.

We can critique how I choose to spend my time, but what about the alternatives? Play video games with strangers? Drink and dance? Play board games with friends? Go to church / mosque every day? Walk down paths to see pretty streams? Smoke pot and watch cartoons? Strum a guitar for hours in a subway?

In my book, it’s not my place to judge others, provided no one is harming me. I think anyone can do what ever they’d like — have at it. Society needs different kinds of people.

For me, it’s about family.

I work probably 40-50hrs a week coding/architecting and 10-20hrs a week managing a farm [cows, hay, honey] (plus 2-3 weeks out of the year doing 12 hr day harvesting).

The rest of the time I’m with my family. That’s 4-7hrs every morning and a couple hours every evening. I see my kids more than most. Importantly, I’m providing for my children — I teach them what I know, help them grow and provide for their needs.

My ancestors gave me what I have and I personally believe I have a duty to live up to all I can be. Yes; that means working hard, building a legacy and leaving our civilization (hopefully) better than we received it.

Working less wouldn’t aid in my objectives. I want to be the best in my field. It wouldn’t help my family to be less / worse. What most people should really ask themselves are what’s their purpose. With purpose you can orient yourself appropriately.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#195

Post by lettergram »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #191
lettergram wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol for almost all human history working all a day was the norm. I don’t necessarily have to do that much work, but I want to get ahead. Most people I grew up with work 40-70hrs a week, often two to three jobs. It’s natural for me to work that much. I don’t even blink at it. What else would you do? Play video games, watch tv, “party”? I can accomplish and build things and spend the rest of the time with family and fr…

Just don't be one of those managers that expects everyone else to give a shit about the company and all is good.

As a manager, I always measured by consistency. I could care less about how much someone worked, frankly.

The engineers would commit and if they met their commitments they were usually good. Sometimes I’d have to nudge them one way or the other, but rarely did I see an issue.

I tended to try to inspire others - aka you can design your own projects, deadlines, etc. My job was to guide, provide cover / funds and ensure success is recognized. My teams were definitely intense at times, but always self-committed and everyone became invested. That’s how to help people grow the most and get the most out of them imo.

That said, most of our deliverables I always pushed publicly (parents, papers, open source, etc). This ensured good future job prospects.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#196

Post by therealdrag0 »

lettergram wrote: post #88
mrmincent wrote: post #3

I’ve gone down to 4 days, taking Fridays off to look after my son, and I certainly won’t be going back to 5 days until he’s in school. Looking after a toddler all day isn’t exactly a day off, but it is extremely rewarding, and something I’d recommend to any parent thinking about dropping down a day. It definitely has some downsides however, I’m the only one in the team that’s off that day, so there’s usually meetings…

I actually work 6 days a week (only Sunday off) noon until midnight with a two hour break 5-7pm. That’s 60 hrs of work a week, but I get to spend every morning 7am-noon with my kids. It’s been a great change of pace for me personally. We have a garden we do as a family, I can do doc appointments, some field trips, etc. while still working extremely hard. It’s not for everyone, but that schedule has been great for me…

I support it, as long as you’re well compensated and you like it. I think due to wanting to “stick it to the man” there can be too much anti-work sentiment.

It’s okay if it’s a throw away side project but not okay if it’s for your employer? Wat. Seems like a silly distinction and backward if anything.

I definitely don’t work as much as you but I also love my work and work random odd hours and sometimes voluntarily extra. I like it and it’s definitely paid of dividends for my career growth.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#197

Post by anticensor »

sokoloff wrote: post #142
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You get healthcare 7 days a week but only work for 4. Salary is only one component of compensation Thinking of healthcare as compensation is what got America into the healthcare mess it's in today.

It emerged from government wage and price controls, wherein health care coverage was exempted. When employers couldn’t compete by raising wages (as that was made illegal), they chose to compete on health coverage. By the time the wage controls were rolled back, it was hard to get that genie back into the bottle.

There used to be a maximum wage in the United States?

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#198

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

cbushko wrote: post #74
TeMPOraL wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't really tell. I mean, there's enough people on HN who say they do pair programming at work, and some even that they do whole projects almost exclusively in some sort of group coding sessions - to me this seems like a bizarro world, so what do I know about majority of software jobs? For me personally, every software job I've done so far - including both the ones where I was one of few (or even the only) coders…

I've only had successful paired programming in one situation and it was amazing. I believe it worked because we were friends and at the same knowledge level. In three days, we ripped through a project that should have taken a month. Our 'C' code was perfect because there was always someone looking at it in real time and catching the errors on the spot. I do not think that I will ever encounter this level of productiv…

It’s beautiful when that happens.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#200

Post by ojbyrne »

lettergram wrote: post #172
mobiledev2014 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s baffling. Nobody should have to work 60 hours a week and be happy about it, doesn’t matter when the hours are

Lol for almost all human history working all a day was the norm. I don’t necessarily have to do that much work, but I want to get ahead. Most people I grew up with work 40-70hrs a week, often two to three jobs. It’s natural for me to work that much. I don’t even blink at it. What else would you do? Play video games, watch tv, “party”? I can accomplish and build things and spend the rest of the time with family and fr…

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/for-95-percent-of-human...
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