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World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

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Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#181

Post by nukeman »

SteveGerencser wrote: post #52

My dad's factory went to 4 day work weeks in the 90s and never looked back. Everyone was happier, and the various suppliers and customers learned pretty quickly not to call on Friday because it was rare that anyone was there. And now I rarely schedule work for Friday's If something important comes up I have an extra day to deal with it, otherwise I get my 3 day weekends and family life is good.

Ditto, a good chunk of the nuclear sector moved to 4/10 and 9/80 in the 1990s. The days are long, but man is it nice to not have to work Fridays. Helps with the commute too.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#182

Post by lettergram »

mobiledev2014 wrote: post #177
lettergram wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol for almost all human history working all a day was the norm. I don’t necessarily have to do that much work, but I want to get ahead. Most people I grew up with work 40-70hrs a week, often two to three jobs. It’s natural for me to work that much. I don’t even blink at it. What else would you do? Play video games, watch tv, “party”? I can accomplish and build things and spend the rest of the time with family and fr…

I hear what you’re saying but since this is hacker news we’re mostly white collar and we’re not talking about all human history, we’re talking about 2023+. I spend my entire weekend with my kids for one thing. Don’t you miss out on things? And yes I play video games or do literally anything other than work before bed. If you’re including side projects you actually want to build in your 60 hours, that’s totally differ…

From my prior post:

> I get to spend every morning 7am-noon with my kids.

I work from home, so I have no commute (saves a boatload of time) and get to eat every meal with the family (who ever is home). I also spend probably 4-7 hrs with my children every day (and all day Sunday’s). I’m pretty more involved, but sure I miss some stuff. I can’t do afternoon / evenings (unless it’s 5-7pm).

In terms of my work breakdown, I tend to do 60-70 hrs. But I code and manage our farm part time (kids will eventually assist with). That’s probably 50 hrs coding/designing, 10-20 hrs on the farm, depending. That obviously will shift a bit depending on weather. I also take 2-3 weeks off coding work to harvest; which are like 12 hr days for a week at a time.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#183

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #99
idopmstuff wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a PM and I work from home - far and away the biggest advantage IMHO isn't the lack of commute (though that's great), but rather the flexibility in schedule. My most productive hours are 6-9am - I can crank through what would take me most of 9am-5pm in that time period. That's wasted when I have to get ready and commute during that time period. When optimizing for most efficient working times, 40 hours a week is r…

The one thing I would go to the office for are sprint ceremonies. On my best functioning teams, we would plan and make sure everyone knew what was needed and solutions brainstormed until we had an agreed approach. Then you stay at home and just execute. And you can used your best hours to smash stuff out and then enjoy the rest of the day.

Hot take: Sprint ceremonies are what I hate the most about our profession. In-office sprint ceremonies make it even worse.

Please end this madness.

One guy from customer success I had lunch with once told me: "wait, so you guys have team meetings every morning, every single day? but why? that sounds terrible. I would hate that"

And yeah! I agree! but this has been the norm in the entire industry for the last ~10 years and you have no say in it.

I once went a month by actively not paying attention to the daily meetings just to prove they're worthless and I didn't miss anything important. Weekly meetings are much better at keeping employees engaged without feeling like a burden/waste of everyone's time.

This whole daily stand-ups and sprint ceremonies are useless bullshit. Quality software got shipped way before those were concocted and shoved into our worklives by agile "consultants" who have nothing better to do in their lives than selling employee micromanagement and control schemes to clueless managers making them feel more empowered over their workers, and creating more bullshit jobs like scrum masters or agile coaches just to give credibility to these management frameworks.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#184

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #179
vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

>I feel the only reason why we have 9-5, Monday to Friday jobs is because of infantile narcissists who have no other purpose in life than to go to work and push people like machines. Hanlon's razor applies here. As does Chesterton's Fence for that matter The 40 hour work week was won in actual blood from labor activists long before any of us were conceptions. The fact that we still live within it, is simply a proof o…

>We should continue to demand the value that efficiency has brought us go where it rightfully sits, with labor.

Labor lost most power with the rise in globalization. It was much easier to strike and affect businesses when they had a limited hiring pool restricted to one country. Now they can just move to another country where labor is less demanding.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#185

Post by carlosjobim »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #87
Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #62

I could see quite a few companies reaching for this over pay rises. Considering inflation right now, it may make sense to suggest a 4 day working week at their existing pay versus offering an inflation beating pay rise.

or I could see it as another tool in the toolbox for smaller private companies that simply cannot match the offers of the big FAANG tech companies with their sky high pay and oodles of RSUs. A private tech company can't match what Apple can do in financial compensation, but what they can offer is better quality of life. Previously that might have been something around benefits and vacation days, but four day work wee…

If they cannot offer what it costs to hire the competence the require, they need to learn how to do those things themselves. You cannot just start a company and expect to buy your way out of your own lack of competence - at least not when there are others paying more.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#186

Post by mobiledev2014 »

lettergram wrote: post #182
mobiledev2014 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear what you’re saying but since this is hacker news we’re mostly white collar and we’re not talking about all human history, we’re talking about 2023+. I spend my entire weekend with my kids for one thing. Don’t you miss out on things? And yes I play video games or do literally anything other than work before bed. If you’re including side projects you actually want to build in your 60 hours, that’s totally differ…

From my prior post: > I get to spend every morning 7am-noon with my kids. I work from home, so I have no commute (saves a boatload of time) and get to eat every meal with the family (who ever is home). I also spend probably 4-7 hrs with my children every day (and all day Sunday’s). I’m pretty more involved, but sure I miss some stuff. I can’t do afternoon / evenings (unless it’s 5-7pm). In terms of my work breakdown,…

Appreciate hearing your story! This is why I refuse to get chickens, let alone actually farm! I’m not disagreeing that this is a great amount of time with the kids, as many people see theirs way less than they would like. Still I can’t imagine losing half of my precious weekend, and in fact want another day of weekend like the people in this article. But not enough to take a pay cut because I’d rather take the money now and retire earlier. Cheers!

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#188

Post by lettergram »

Insanity wrote: post #163
lettergram wrote: post #85

Good, you all work 4 days and I’ll work my standard 6x10 6 days, 10hrs a day. When people get fired presumably I’ll still be standing. When promotion time comes around, the person who does the most will get the promotion. When bonus time comes, I’ll have the most done. You can try to regulate day(s), but if there’s people willing to work more they’ll set the standard.

As someone managing a team of engineers, I would see this as a red flag and not something to praise. Promotions are not based on working such hours anywhere I have seen either. And similarly, that alone will not protect you from being laid off.

As someone who also managed, fair enough. I always measured by consistency. The engineers would commit and if they met their commitments they were usually good. Sometimes I’d have to nudge them one way or the other, but rarely did I see an issue.

For me personally, I enjoy committing to stretch myself. Leave it all on the field so-to-speak. I love my / our trade so it’s easy for me. I don’t expect it from others at that level.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#189

Post by MomoXenosaga »

permo-w wrote: post #27
vouaobrasil wrote: post #13

When was a mathematician, I worked as hard as I could until I was mentally exhausted. I actually calculated how much I worked per week over a period of two years. On actual "hard thinking", like working through logic, I spent about 7 hours. There was another 7 hours writing and clarifying topics, and another 6 hours or so on classes, seminars (sort of like meetings, but productive). That gives a total of 20 hours per…

I read somewhere that the 9-5 workweek was first implemented before the emancipation of women. whether it’s true or not I do not know, but it’s an interesting artifact to consider

Until the 1960s people worked on Saturday in my country.

Economically giving people more time to spend money was a great idea.

Re: World’s largest four-day work week trial finds few are going back

#190

Post by charcircuit »

agubelu wrote: post #95
lettergram wrote: post #85

Good, you all work 4 days and I’ll work my standard 6x10 6 days, 10hrs a day. When people get fired presumably I’ll still be standing. When promotion time comes around, the person who does the most will get the promotion. When bonus time comes, I’ll have the most done. You can try to regulate day(s), but if there’s people willing to work more they’ll set the standard.

When you're in your final years and you look back at your life, does anyone seriously think "I wish I had spent more hours at work"? I personally don't know a single case. However, "I wish I had had more time for..." is probably the norm. Life is so much more than work.

Some of us actually like our jobs and find joy in what we work on. If you want single case it's me. I can look back at previous jobs and wish that I spent more time working making something even better, improving other people's lives more.
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