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Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

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Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#11

Post by snarfy »

smackeyacky wrote: post #7
easton wrote: post #5

I wonder if it'll be possible ever to do Native AOT if you rely on Newtonsoft (which is reflection heavy, last I heard). Yes, yes, I know, use System.Text.Json, but I already have all this code relying on Newtonsoft-y things :(

It's worth the work heading to System.Text.Json - even if only to make staying up with .NET easier for yourself. It had a bit of a rough start but it seems far more interoperable on weird edge cases than Newtonsoft now, so all the "Newtonsoft-y" things you're doing might evaporate.

I've had the opposite experience. System.Text.Json adheres extremely close to the RFC and barely handles any edge cases. Newtonsoft will happily serialize invalid json. Not that you want that but if you have a legacy system it's not worth migrating. James Newton-King is a Microsoft employee btw.

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#12

Post by runevault »

smackeyacky wrote: post #7
easton wrote: post #5

I wonder if it'll be possible ever to do Native AOT if you rely on Newtonsoft (which is reflection heavy, last I heard). Yes, yes, I know, use System.Text.Json, but I already have all this code relying on Newtonsoft-y things :(

It's worth the work heading to System.Text.Json - even if only to make staying up with .NET easier for yourself. It had a bit of a rough start but it seems far more interoperable on weird edge cases than Newtonsoft now, so all the "Newtonsoft-y" things you're doing might evaporate.

Isn't Text.json also faster at this point because it uses all the new span goodness and the like?

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#13

Post by ofrzeta »

vyrotek wrote: post #10
avgDev wrote: post #6

I have been using Blazor Server for a project at work.....Honestly, it is so much better than using .Net MVC/Core with js sprinkled in. I developed stuff in java for android, swift for ios, and now mostly work in c#, SQL, .Net MVC/Core, blazor. Microsoft stack feels pretty good to me. Getting a start up job is a bit difficult, I came across two startups using microsoft stack and only one paid SV money. C#/.Net does h…

The trick is to start the company yourself. :) We're 3 years in and full .NET stack. Is your project an internal app or public? I'm cautiously optimistic about Blazor Server but I'm not sure I like the sticky SignalR requirement. The expectation seems to be that the backend server will keep around a lot of state ( cough viewstate?) in memory associated to that session. It's a very convenient dev experience for sure,…

This is why they recommend using the Azure SignalR Service, I guess :)

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#14

Post by vyrotek »

ofrzeta wrote: post #13
vyrotek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to start the company yourself. :) We're 3 years in and full .NET stack. Is your project an internal app or public? I'm cautiously optimistic about Blazor Server but I'm not sure I like the sticky SignalR requirement. The expectation seems to be that the backend server will keep around a lot of state ( cough viewstate?) in memory associated to that session. It's a very convenient dev experience for sure,…

This is why they recommend using the Azure SignalR Service, I guess :)

Indeed. That's that the only way I'd consider it. Luckily, they are generous with the free messages. Last I looked it was about $161 per day to scale to 100k concurrent users. But that's just SignalR. We'll also need much beefier AppServices with lots more memory than what we use now.

Not quite sure how it works beyond that when you need multiple service instances connected with a backplane. The new premium tier I just saw sounds convenient though.

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/details/signalr-se...

https://youtu.be/OsdBpMumf_c?t=635

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#15

Post by pca184 »

bottlepalm wrote: post #4
vyrotek wrote: post #2

Blazor United looks ambitious but sounds great! The goal feels similar to that of Remix.run and a few other frameworks that are blending SPA/SSR. I do wonder about the scalability of the Blazor Server mode which requires live and "sticky" SignalR connections.

I have the same question, will Blazor United SSR still require a persistent SignalR connection? That's kind of a dealbreaker.

In Steve Sanderson's video showing off the prototype (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48G_CEGXZZM) he mentions around the 2min 15s mark that SSR has no websockets/SignalR or even JS required. From what I could gather, websockets will kick in when an interactive blazor component needs it. And there will be the option start downloading the WASM/DLLs in the background. When WASM is ready your app will switch from websockets to WASM. Hopefully that switch will be 'live', but in the demo it looked like a page refresh was required

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#16

Post by RagnarD »

avgDev wrote: post #6

I have been using Blazor Server for a project at work.....Honestly, it is so much better than using .Net MVC/Core with js sprinkled in. I developed stuff in java for android, swift for ios, and now mostly work in c#, SQL, .Net MVC/Core, blazor. Microsoft stack feels pretty good to me. Getting a start up job is a bit difficult, I came across two startups using microsoft stack and only one paid SV money. C#/.Net does h…

It's easy to start with, as I did, but do yourself a favor and move to Blazor Webassembly. Blazor Server handles UI events in a centralized way, and network lag really destroys the application. It might be ok on a fast and reliable intranet, but you really don't want to use it on the general internet.

Standard Blazor Webassembly project setup creates a server side project and a client side one. C# code on the client side is compiled to Webassembly. You then set up your server side functions called from the client side with usual C# .NET REST functions. This is less convenient than the Blazor Server model, but it captures the actual complexity of internet networking. It's also fast. You can put a lot of (hopefully non-confidential) processing onto the client side, running locally in the user's browser using a huge array of .NET library functions including from NuGet. It really is the way to go.

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#17

Post by avgDev »

layoric wrote: post #9
avgDev wrote: post #6

I have been using Blazor Server for a project at work.....Honestly, it is so much better than using .Net MVC/Core with js sprinkled in. I developed stuff in java for android, swift for ios, and now mostly work in c#, SQL, .Net MVC/Core, blazor. Microsoft stack feels pretty good to me. Getting a start up job is a bit difficult, I came across two startups using microsoft stack and only one paid SV money. C#/.Net does h…

What kind of setup do you have to avoid users noticing the drop of their websocket connection due to a deployment? Blazor Server development experience is very good, but even for an intranet application, it can have a poor user experience by default due to the requirement of a persistent connection.

It is yet to be launched but it will be used by a small number of users in a intranet.

If there are issues I will just convert to webassembly.

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#18

Post by avgDev »

vyrotek wrote: post #10
avgDev wrote: post #6

I have been using Blazor Server for a project at work.....Honestly, it is so much better than using .Net MVC/Core with js sprinkled in. I developed stuff in java for android, swift for ios, and now mostly work in c#, SQL, .Net MVC/Core, blazor. Microsoft stack feels pretty good to me. Getting a start up job is a bit difficult, I came across two startups using microsoft stack and only one paid SV money. C#/.Net does h…

The trick is to start the company yourself. :) We're 3 years in and full .NET stack. Is your project an internal app or public? I'm cautiously optimistic about Blazor Server but I'm not sure I like the sticky SignalR requirement. The expectation seems to be that the backend server will keep around a lot of state ( cough viewstate?) in memory associated to that session. It's a very convenient dev experience for sure,…

It is an internal app, otherwise I would go for web-assembly with an API.

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#19

Post by megaman821 »

bottlepalm wrote: post #4
vyrotek wrote: post #2

Blazor United looks ambitious but sounds great! The goal feels similar to that of Remix.run and a few other frameworks that are blending SPA/SSR. I do wonder about the scalability of the Blazor Server mode which requires live and "sticky" SignalR connections.

I have the same question, will Blazor United SSR still require a persistent SignalR connection? That's kind of a dealbreaker.

It looks like the first connection will use SignalR and download the WebAssembly in the background. All connections after that will use the cached WebAssembly.

Re: Asp.net Core updates in .NET 8 Preview 1

#20

Post by jcparkyn »

runevault wrote: post #12
smackeyacky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth the work heading to System.Text.Json - even if only to make staying up with .NET easier for yourself. It had a bit of a rough start but it seems far more interoperable on weird edge cases than Newtonsoft now, so all the "Newtonsoft-y" things you're doing might evaporate.

Isn't Text.json also faster at this point because it uses all the new span goodness and the like?

I'm pretty sure it's been faster for as long as it's existed.
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