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My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

danlawton.substack.com

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Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#161

Post by DontchaKnowit »

jossclimb wrote: post #127
cutler wrote: post #114

I can't help thinking that most of these examples of negative side effects are related to intensives rather than meditation/mindfulness itself. There's a world of difference between 20 minutes a day and 10 days in a retreat looking inward. Maybe it's just better for you in short bursts, not long marathons. I once experienced negative effects after joining a Buddhist meditation group while at university. Every time I…

I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…

Interestingly you describe the shattering of your delusion as the return of your ego - I think it is the opposite. I think you invited an inflated ego into your life through your meditation : "I should become a guru and help humanity" <-- that is ego speaking. The shattering of this idea is is not ego but humility, to my way of thinking.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#162

Post by inphovore »

Too much mindfulness reveals we are not alone in our own minds and your controls will destroy you for your awareness.

The MKS[1] one hundred years ago spoke of crude tools for developing “mindfulness” and allowing the “master mind” to emerge (you discover you are not alone in your mind.) superficially this is blamed for positive thinking as “the secret”. The “secret” is others can hear your thoughts and take mischievous (or benevolent) interest in our interests.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_Key_System

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#163

Post by haswell »

tuyiown wrote: post #149
jossclimb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…

> I experienced a deep realisation that our thoughts manifest from nowhere and not from ourselves (words fail me here) and that the construct of 'me' was completely false and was just a reverberation of my environment. I understood there was no me. This was really nice for about two weeks and then my ego (I expect) just kicked my arse and brought me back down to earth with a crash (maybe its a safety system) Just for…

> * the «from nowhere» really just might be the unconscious brain*

The trouble is that once you start to consider the nature of the unconscious brain, such consideration leads to the same conclusion.

If the unconscious brain somehow has “control”, from where does it derive this control? Unless you then accept some kind of metaphysical explanation, it’s centerlessness all the way down.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#164

Post by phkahler »

>> What we do share is a feeling that’s common among those who have had traumatic experiences: neglect, shame and a sense of being unheard by those in power.

They might want to read "Running on Empty" - the book notes that various forms of emotional neglect can have effects like trauma, but this is often overlooked by psychologist and therapists. I enjoyed the part in the article where the author said they finally allowed themself to be angry and wanted to ask "who should that anger really be directed at?"

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#165

Post by sinuhe69 »

denton-scratch wrote: post #89
rg111 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did Buddha define Buddhism? Even in time of Buddha, there were thousands of Buddhists who were practising Buddhist while remaining in a family. Buddha, once addressing Ananda, told him that there were hundreds of disciples who attained Nirvana while remaining in a family and with a profession. I find this kind of opposition to Western Buddhist practices absolitely repulsive and baseless. Yes, I studied Buddhist…

> you don't need to burn insence sticks and bow k times before a statue to be a Buddhist. That's what would be called "devotional practices". I didn't care for all that - pujas, foundation practices, 100,000 prostrations and so on. I wanted to do the insight practices, and gain insight. What I later learned is that you have to do devotional practices as well as insight practices. A bird can't fly with just one wing.…

Not only give you confidence, it also guides you to deal with the issues arisen from your insight practices.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#166

Post by haswell »

analyst74 wrote: post #158
jossclimb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…

> I experienced a deep realisation that our thoughts manifest from nowhere and not from ourselves (words fail me here) and that the construct of 'me' was completely false and was just a reverberation of my environment. Wait, is this not common knowledge??

Knowledge is not the same thing as insight, and experiencing what the parent comment describes is something that most people never attempt (or even realize there is something to attempt).

Having a philosophical/intellectual conversation about the nature of mind is very different than your own mind wrapping itself around these concepts directly.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#168

Post by zozbot234 »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #159

Scott Alexander had reviews of Dan Ingram and related 'modern day enlightened'. I seem to recall a suggestion that these people could be considered to have developed something like a self induced, positive version of dissociative personality disorder. They would get angry or hungry or grumpy, but 'they' were a step away from this person that was hungry or angry or whatever. It's like they had zoomed in and drawn some…

> these people could be considered to have developed something like a self induced, positive version of dissociative personality disorder.

Yes, the self disorders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-disorders of schizophrenics (such as feeling like thoughts are being radioed into your head) read like what might be expected to happen if one reaches sudden, involuntary awareness of the three marks of existence without having done any sort of meditative or even devotional practice, let alone reached any enlightenment. This only underscores that awareness of the three characteristics is part of what frees us from dukkha but is not in itself sufficient; after all, people who undergo these psychotic breaks are obviously very deeply mired in craving and dukkha.

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#169

Post by emptyfile »

nprateem wrote: post #28
ghoastl wrote: post #9

My most intense mindfulness experience was on a two-week silent retreat, in the woods, isolated from all of humanity. At the beginning, I met only the creatures of the forest and heard only the whispers of the trees. By the sixth day I was hallucinating gold and purple snakes slithering out of my belly onto the ground around me. By the eighth day I had visions of a cloud island vista with animals the world had never…

Sounds like your upper chakras opened. Well done on making great progress. Sounds like an amazing experience. It's no surprise these experiences are often misinterpreted as psychosis by people without an awareness of where deep meditative states can lead.

[dead]

Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)

#170

Post by cracoucax »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #159

Scott Alexander had reviews of Dan Ingram and related 'modern day enlightened'. I seem to recall a suggestion that these people could be considered to have developed something like a self induced, positive version of dissociative personality disorder. They would get angry or hungry or grumpy, but 'they' were a step away from this person that was hungry or angry or whatever. It's like they had zoomed in and drawn some…

Daniel Ingram is a deluded fool, and imo being this deluded probably means a sort of mental disorder. His book and system just show how far away from any real form of enlightenment he is. Sadly because he sounds modern & a little scientific people keep taking him seriously. No, the Vipassana nanas are not what he describes. Anyone wondering about him should just forget this stuff, burn this book and go to a retreat with a well known teacher.
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