Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're describing a psychosis.
Maybe everyone should experience a little psychosis.
[deleted]
My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
141–150 of 419 posts
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#142If you mediate, you should be aided by a master or friends. You should not mediate, especially deep mediate in a confusing state of mind, when you are panic or exhausted, when you are hungry or too full. If you don’t follow the rules and practice according to your levels, you can hallucinate and harm yourself (走火入魔). These are very clear advises from every Buddhist school.
Meditation is one way to practice mindfulness. It’s NOT the only one. It’s by no way the silver bullet for all your problems. It’s also not a technique recommend for beginners. No Buddhist master would recommend it for you, if you haven’t studied the Buddhist teachings sufficiently.
Above all, Buddhist meditation should always be practiced in accordance with the Buddhist teachings, first and foremost with compassion in mind. Abuse any technique and it will bring harm, especially on yourself.
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're confusing the words "true" and "real". It is true that the Earth revolves around the Sun, and the orbit is also real. That 2+2=4 is true, but it's not real. The electrochemical activity in your brain is real, and the fact that it causes your subjective experience is true. Your subjective experience is true to you (you're experiencing the things you're experiencing), but it's unknown to me. It is also of unknow…
Thank you for your reply. In most ways I agree, in all ways actually. But my point is that the term "real" doesn't mean strictly material. The picture I'm painting is to bring away "reality" from strictly material and external. I do this to argue with the point above your original reply, saying that the scientific method is incompatible with these things. We're in philosophical territory and I won't pretend to be an…
Which is why I originally asked what was meant by "real". From a consensus-realistic perspective, things that are purely subjective and non-material things are definitely less real or at least less-obviously real. From a solipsistic perspective the only real thing is one's subjective experience, and everything else is in doubt. But most people are not capable of consistently maintaining a solipsistic perspective, so I didn't assume that's what was meant.
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#144> Once we have crossed the Arising and Passing Away (and if we don’t suddenly die or get severe brain damage due to some unfortunate life circumstances), we shall enter insight stages five through ten regardless of whether we want to. It doesn’t matter if we practice from this point on; once we cross the A&P, we are in the Dark Night to some degree and become what is sometimes called a “Dark Night yogi”, or simply “d…
It should be noted that Daniel Ingram is following the Mahasi sayadaw method and is a bit from of a fringe Buddhist subculture promoting (if I am not confusing things „dry insight“ meditation). Maybe the cultivation of the non-dry aspects is actually helpful.
I am a noob, does dry insight mean no concentration practices? The book says a significant amount of concentration practice is necessary before it is possible to make any progress with insight practice, and also recommends continuing concentration practice as a stabilizing and comforting influence against the destabilizing and often unpleasant insight journey.
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…
“Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.” We need the mundane earthly activities to balance any inward quests.
That sounds pragmatic; in the end, you still have to return to the real world and get on with things like survive.
Although this talk about becoming enlightened sounds like people have given up on themselves and realilty entirely to pursue something in their minds. It sounds like a self-induced state of tripping balls.
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#146Had anybody else noticed that for many Stoicism has replaced Buddhism as the “cool” and “intellectual” spirituality amongst those in the liberal tech world?
Stoicism is more like Buddhism on easy mode for those in the Western tradition. Even Buddhists themselves are very clear that one should not pursue serious meditation unless they have their sīla (morality, ethical behavior) down pat and are at an appropriate stage of life where they have the time and means for it; Stoicism is all about the practice of sīla. If you skip on that, you end up with stories like OP's, and…
It's probably no coincidence Stoicism (and Cynicism) appeared in the centuries following Alexander's campaign to India, and the bidirectional greco-indian cultural exchange that followed.
(It's also no coincidence that a Indian Buddhist monks ostensibly wear orange togas; not that the Romans conquered India or the Indians went to Rome, but the two seem to have been inspired by the Greek Chiton and Himation)
This cultural exchange is pretty fascinating thing in general. Here are some complementary reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_in_Greece
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#147I can't help thinking that most of these examples of negative side effects are related to intensives rather than meditation/mindfulness itself. There's a world of difference between 20 minutes a day and 10 days in a retreat looking inward. Maybe it's just better for you in short bursts, not long marathons. I once experienced negative effects after joining a Buddhist meditation group while at university. Every time I…
Not entirely sure if any study demonstrating the benefits of meditation or mindfulness considers counting 9 to 1 repeatedly an act of either. That aligns much more closely with the advice given to those with panic disorders in how to ride out their panic attacks or prevent them when they feel coming on.
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#148I can't help thinking that most of these examples of negative side effects are related to intensives rather than meditation/mindfulness itself. There's a world of difference between 20 minutes a day and 10 days in a retreat looking inward. Maybe it's just better for you in short bursts, not long marathons. I once experienced negative effects after joining a Buddhist meditation group while at university. Every time I…
Not entirely sure if any study demonstrating the benefits of meditation or mindfulness considers counting 9 to 1 repeatedly an act of either. That aligns much more closely with the advice given to those with panic disorders in how to ride out their panic attacks or prevent them when they feel coming on.
I'm not Buddhist or experienced meditator, but I have surely seen instruction for counting based mindfulness practices.
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#149I can't help thinking that most of these examples of negative side effects are related to intensives rather than meditation/mindfulness itself. There's a world of difference between 20 minutes a day and 10 days in a retreat looking inward. Maybe it's just better for you in short bursts, not long marathons. I once experienced negative effects after joining a Buddhist meditation group while at university. Every time I…
I expect there will be higher cases of psychosis happening on intense retreats, but as anecdotal as this, I had it happen to me (albeit not as extreme as OP) after meditating for much shorter periods (approx 10 minutes up to an hour). I really did not see it coming. For some context, I don't know of any deep seated trauma that I have and I liked to think of myself as someone robust mentally. I experienced a deep real…
> I experienced a deep realisation that our thoughts manifest from nowhere and not from ourselves (words fail me here) and that the construct of 'me' was completely false and was just a reverberation of my environment. I understood there was no me. This was really nice for about two weeks and then my ego (I expect) just kicked my arse and brought me back down to earth with a crash (maybe its a safety system)
Just for the conversation: the «from nowhere» really just might be the unconscious brain, as the relationship between conscious and unconscious is ambiguous at best. The conscious insist in being in control, most of the time fooling itself, while the unconscious does most of the work in a really autonomous way.
Maybe the «safety system» was just the unconscious rebelling to prove it does indeed exist and that the conscious should take note, and resume its part in the general guidance of the being :)
Re: My mindfulness practice led me to meltdown (2021)
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for your reply. In most ways I agree, in all ways actually. But my point is that the term "real" doesn't mean strictly material. The picture I'm painting is to bring away "reality" from strictly material and external. I do this to argue with the point above your original reply, saying that the scientific method is incompatible with these things. We're in philosophical territory and I won't pretend to be an…
Which is why I originally asked what was meant by "real". From a consensus-realistic perspective, things that are purely subjective and non-material things are definitely less real or at least less-obviously real. From a solipsistic perspective the only real thing is one's subjective experience, and everything else is in doubt. But most people are not capable of consistently maintaining a solipsistic perspective, so…
Thank you for the conversation. Your style reminds me of "Theaetus" by Plato. Maybe you'd like it.