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A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

economist.com

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Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#31

Post by lnsru »

jpswade wrote: post #15
unxdfa wrote: post #14

If they blasted middle management, management and process consultants, HR and ancillary corporate fluff staff into the sun we’d get 6 days of work done in 3 days and never have to suffer a Monday or Friday again. But that doesn’t create jobs or indicate growth to investors. Shaking the wrong end of the stick as always.

If this were true, those roles wouldn't exist to begin with. Do you think perhaps there's a reason why those roles have come to be?

I have 5 different HR contacts: For vacation questions, for overtime regulation, for manual corrections of buggy time accounting software, for general questions and for payslip errors. Forgot new 6th one! For reporting sickness!! They exist and are very real and I must deal with that on daily basis. It’s hard to believe, but that how works big corp.

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#32

Post by pm215 »

lostlogin wrote: post #12
barryvan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not where I am! Rather, it's a negotiation with your manager to see what works best. That way, we can ensure we have coverage across the week. We're all "on" for Mondays and Tuesdays, and then people take Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday off according to preference and suitability. Yes, more people take Friday than Thursday, but quite a lot of people enjoy the zen-like lack of distraction when they work Fridays. Or so…

The pro tip is to work Monday, and thereby catch nearly all the stat days. Some enlightened countries pro-rata stat days, but New Zealand doesn’t.

The employer can fix up the imbalance -- if there are N bank holidays in the year, give all 80% part time workers 0.8N extra days of holiday allowance above their usual amount (etc), and mandate that they cover the bank holidays with days from their allowance if they would normally work them. (My UK employer does this.)

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#33

Post by mathieuh »

jpswade wrote: post #15
unxdfa wrote: post #14

If they blasted middle management, management and process consultants, HR and ancillary corporate fluff staff into the sun we’d get 6 days of work done in 3 days and never have to suffer a Monday or Friday again. But that doesn’t create jobs or indicate growth to investors. Shaking the wrong end of the stick as always.

If this were true, those roles wouldn't exist to begin with. Do you think perhaps there's a reason why those roles have come to be?

My impression is that what happens sometimes is managers just keep hiring more and more managers, and then eventually someone twigs and suddenly there's a big cull of management. It's happened to companies I've been at a couple of times.

You get to a point where there's two product managers and and a product owner per team, with like three or four engineers until someone realises.

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#34

Post by logifail »

dagw wrote: post #26
logifail wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love that I [..] can (shock!) go out to lunch with my wife during the week while the kids are at school (Genuine question) but why wouldn't someone be able to have lunch with their OH while working a traditional 5-day week? Surely a lunch break is something everyone is entitled to even when they're working that day?

Not the OP, but I suspect it's more a question of time. My my wife and I work on opposite ends of town, so if we where to both hop on a bus, meet in the middle, enjoy a nice and leisurely lunch at a nice restaurant (as opposed to just grabbing some fast food) and then hop on a bus back to our respective offices, we're probably looking at at least 2 hours door to door. Hell, even if I'm just going for lunch by myself…

> it's more a question of time

So, given we're talking about employers offering flexibility, how about allowing people to take a longer lunch break so they can go for lunch with their OH, but either start their day earlier or stay at work later?

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#35

Post by luckylion »

moomin wrote: post #21

Honestly, people keep running trials like this and time and again they have the same results and then no-one does anything. Because, just like the whole WFH thing, these decisions aren’t made by the numbers, but by the personal preferences of employers.

Why would all employers say "I don't want to make more money if it means having to change this one thing"? And if they do, they'd surely be outcompeted by those adopting these policies.

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#36

Post by t344344 »

On paper it seems nice, but in reality it will just decrease salaries and people will have to work two jobs for the same money.

Better to support work from home. It should be considered misogynistic and "anti green", if employer demands work at office.

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#37

Post by gyrogearloose »

lostlogin wrote: post #13
snehk wrote: post #5

The takeaway for employers: People putting out as much work in four days as they did in five. That must mean that the previous requirement was too low and should be increased.

This assumes an awful lot about the type of work done. Many jobs are about being present between certain given hours. Good luck getting 5 days work out of a nurse in 4 days.

I agree with your point, but it is very common for clinical staff to work 12 hour shifts and do 3 or 4 per week.

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#38

Post by kqr »

jpswade wrote: post #15
unxdfa wrote: post #14

If they blasted middle management, management and process consultants, HR and ancillary corporate fluff staff into the sun we’d get 6 days of work done in 3 days and never have to suffer a Monday or Friday again. But that doesn’t create jobs or indicate growth to investors. Shaking the wrong end of the stick as always.

If this were true, those roles wouldn't exist to begin with. Do you think perhaps there's a reason why those roles have come to be?

Just as bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy, so does management.

There is a good way to do big management, but what usually happens is managers find themselves with time to spare and invent activities which do not directly add value, but eventually snowball into formidable tasks requiring more management.

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#39

Post by logifail »

I'm still not really seeing how the 4-day-week, at 5 days pay, is delivering the (almost magical) 20%+ productivity boost that its proponents seem to claim it does.

I'm sure almost all people feel better when given the option to work fewer hours for the same money ... I know I would!

How does that translate into increased productivity, though?

Re: A pilot scheme to trail the four-day workweek in Britain deemed a success (2022)

#40

Post by parineum »

kqr wrote: post #38
jpswade wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were true, those roles wouldn't exist to begin with. Do you think perhaps there's a reason why those roles have come to be?

Just as bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy, so does management. There is a good way to do big management, but what usually happens is managers find themselves with time to spare and invent activities which do not directly add value, but eventually snowball into formidable tasks requiring more management.

That's true for government because they have no competition. In the corporate world, excessive bloat leads to stifled innovation and eventual irrelevance then bankruptcy.

Sears could have been Amazon.

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