Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 61 posts

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#41

Post by adam_arthur »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #39
SideQuark wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't accept free money during a pandemic? Except that would be bad too..... Govt handouts during the pandemic added significant money without increased production to keep people afloat, which is good short term. The cost of that is inflation medium term. Long term wages rise to offset inflation. This has always been the pattern. Adding money for nothing to the system devalues each piece of money, so inflation is exp…

I’m so tired of this nonsense. The checks cut, at least in the US, only barely added to peoples bank accounts and were for the most part quickly spent. Just look at excess savings, there was a brief spike and now it’s back lower than ever. Stop spreading this propaganda.

You’re wrong. Excess savings is still elevated far above pre-pandemic trends.

https://theovershoot.co/p/americas-excess-household-savings

You’re likely referencing the savings rate, which is a different concept. This measures how much of newly earned income is saved, not how much excess savings somebody has in an absolute sense.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT

Aside from savings, household credit is still below pre-pandemic trends in real terms, just touching the nominal trend recently.

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#42

Post by pmyteh »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #31
ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #2

This is obvious to anyone that works. What do we do about it?

Get involved with local politics. E.g. the internal party selection process for a candidate for a seat in the UK parliament may only involve a few hundred people - if that seat is safe (i.e. practically guaranteed to that party) then those few hundred effectively choose the representative, and so have a large voice in determining policy. (Ironically the one time I was one of the few hundred, our chosen candidate - wh…

There is a certain amount of agency in UK parliamentary selections, but the leaderships of both major parties have (for a good while) been keen to limit that. I'm not saying that it's futile -- you'll certainly get a choice of candidates that the leaderships are happy with -- but I'm not sure it's a decent mechanism for achieving change anywhere except at the margins.

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#43

Post by gruez »

krageon wrote: post #32

"Inflation" is also measured ridiculously. Groceries and all utilities (basic and luxury) have become 50-100% more expensive but somehow the inflation is 8%? Not for anyone poor it isn't, for them it is 50% or more. I understand of course other parts of the market (stocks, perhaps other expensive things like cars and industrial equipment) have not experienced the same price increase and for this reason the inflation…

>Groceries and all utilities (basic and luxury) have become 50-100% more expensive but somehow the inflation is 8%?

Where are you getting "50-100%" for "Groceries and all utilities"? The BLS is only reporting 11.3% for the "Food at home" category.

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#44

Post by gruez »

switch007 wrote: post #17
gruez wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s amazing that companies are permitted to increase prices due to “inflation” but not simultaneously increase wages. The implied proposal sounds like a great way to get a wage-price spiral.

I guess we'll just have to shut up and accept a price spiral

The "spiral" in "wage price spiral" implies it's a feedback loop. "shut up and accept[ing]" it would imply accepting rampant inflation like in venezuela or turkey.

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#45

Post by SideQuark »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #39
SideQuark wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't accept free money during a pandemic? Except that would be bad too..... Govt handouts during the pandemic added significant money without increased production to keep people afloat, which is good short term. The cost of that is inflation medium term. Long term wages rise to offset inflation. This has always been the pattern. Adding money for nothing to the system devalues each piece of money, so inflation is exp…

I’m so tired of this nonsense. The checks cut, at least in the US, only barely added to peoples bank accounts and were for the most part quickly spent. Just look at excess savings, there was a brief spike and now it’s back lower than ever. Stop spreading this propaganda.

>Stop spreading this propaganda

This isn't propaganda - it's econ 101. Read any intro econ textbook and all this is completely expected, historically backed up by many events for centuries in hundreds of countries. There's no propaganda.

M1 money (a common measure of the money supply) went from around 4 trillion to over 16 trillion in a matter of months during the pandemic [1] as a result of the govt adding trillions of dollars - a completely unprecedented amount.

Do you really think a govt can simply throw trillions into an economy at this rate and not have inflation?

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#46

Post by missedthecue »

kar5pt wrote: post #25
missedthecue wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why truckers (unionised) make a lot of money while software devs (nonunionised) scrape by

How do you put on pants in the morning?

My comment was facetious satire illustrating that productivity increases, not cartels, are the key to rising wages.

I'm sorry it was difficult to understand.

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#47

Post by throwaway5959 »

SideQuark wrote: post #45
throwaway5959 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m so tired of this nonsense. The checks cut, at least in the US, only barely added to peoples bank accounts and were for the most part quickly spent. Just look at excess savings, there was a brief spike and now it’s back lower than ever. Stop spreading this propaganda.

>Stop spreading this propaganda This isn't propaganda - it's econ 101. Read any intro econ textbook and all this is completely expected, historically backed up by many events for centuries in hundreds of countries. There's no propaganda. M1 money (a common measure of the money supply) went from around 4 trillion to over 16 trillion in a matter of months during the pandemic [1] as a result of the govt adding trillions…

k let's assume that's the case, what would you propose as the solution to mop up the 12 trillion in excess M1?

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#48

Post by throwaway5959 »

adam_arthur wrote: post #41
throwaway5959 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m so tired of this nonsense. The checks cut, at least in the US, only barely added to peoples bank accounts and were for the most part quickly spent. Just look at excess savings, there was a brief spike and now it’s back lower than ever. Stop spreading this propaganda.

You’re wrong. Excess savings is still elevated far above pre-pandemic trends. https://theovershoot.co/p/americas-excess-household-savings You’re likely referencing the savings rate, which is a different concept. This measures how much of newly earned income is saved, not how much excess savings somebody has in an absolute sense. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT Aside from savings, household credit is still…

> Americans liquidated more than $1 trillion of “excess” savings in 2022, eliminating more than half of the surplus accumulated since the pandemic began.

Sounds like the problem is solving itself then?

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#49

Post by switch007 »

gruez wrote: post #44
switch007 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we'll just have to shut up and accept a price spiral

The "spiral" in "wage price spiral" implies it's a feedback loop. "shut up and accept[ing]" it would imply accepting rampant inflation like in venezuela or turkey.

We have some pretty rampant inflation in the UK too, the past couple of years. A lot of it now is just greed

As in, greed is "spiralling" out of control

Re: Workers’ Pay Globally Hasn’t Kept Up with Inflation

#50

Post by adam_arthur »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #48
adam_arthur wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re wrong. Excess savings is still elevated far above pre-pandemic trends. https://theovershoot.co/p/americas-excess-household-savings You’re likely referencing the savings rate, which is a different concept. This measures how much of newly earned income is saved, not how much excess savings somebody has in an absolute sense. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT Aside from savings, household credit is still…

> Americans liquidated more than $1 trillion of “excess” savings in 2022, eliminating more than half of the surplus accumulated since the pandemic began. Sounds like the problem is solving itself then?

This is not "solving itself"... the Fed has hiked rates 5% and is still going.

History shows there’s likely going to be a severe recession at the end of this

Post reply on HN