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Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

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Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#71

Post by bityard »

IshKebab wrote: post #66
samwillis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's been achieved in a little over a year with the Ladybird Browser from the SerenityOS project shows that it's quite possible to build a new browser from scratch. And yes, they are absolute heroes for doing it! https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform... https://linus.dev/posts/ladybird-browser-year-in-review-2022...

It's definitely impressive, and it shows it is possible to build a new browser. I don't think it shows it is possible to build a new browser that ordinary people will use though. That requires implementing a gazillion niche features that Chrome supports, and compatibility with a gazillion broken websites. Probably with web browsers the last 0.1% is 99.9% of the work.

A lot of us would be happy to have a browser that doesn't try to support the gazillion features of chrome and Firefox, if it instead gave us the ability to browse the web on our own terms instead of one company's vision of what the web should be.

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#72

Post by cactusplant7374 »

IshKebab wrote: post #66
samwillis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's been achieved in a little over a year with the Ladybird Browser from the SerenityOS project shows that it's quite possible to build a new browser from scratch. And yes, they are absolute heroes for doing it! https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform... https://linus.dev/posts/ladybird-browser-year-in-review-2022...

It's definitely impressive, and it shows it is possible to build a new browser. I don't think it shows it is possible to build a new browser that ordinary people will use though. That requires implementing a gazillion niche features that Chrome supports, and compatibility with a gazillion broken websites. Probably with web browsers the last 0.1% is 99.9% of the work.

I've always associated advanced browser features with power users. Am I wrong?

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#73

Post by calvinmorrison »

ZeroX-DG wrote: post #63

Nice! I'm glad to see more people are interested in creating browser from scratch. Tho like the "OS from scratch" trend, most of those browsers won't be as nearly as performant or complete as those market-leading browsers without ton of work put into it. Making a browser is not a one man job. But it's certainly fun to make a browser! I happen to keep track of the open-source browser projects & resources here if anyon…

you should add dillo

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#74

Post by nicoburns »

ZeroX-DG wrote: post #63

Nice! I'm glad to see more people are interested in creating browser from scratch. Tho like the "OS from scratch" trend, most of those browsers won't be as nearly as performant or complete as those market-leading browsers without ton of work put into it. Making a browser is not a one man job. But it's certainly fun to make a browser! I happen to keep track of the open-source browser projects & resources here if anyon…

Huh, interesting that you implemented flow (block/inline) layout but not Flexbox or CSS Grid. I've been working on a library has the opposite! (it support Flexbox and CSS Grid, but not flow layout). Here if you're interested:

https://github.com/DioxusLabs/taffy

I'll definitely take a look at your browser when I get some time.

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#75

Post by johnnyjeans »

nurettin wrote: post #36
spenczar5 wrote: post #6

I fully acknowledge that Plan9 had a cool vision, maybe a superior one to the world we’ve got. But is it practical as an operating system for day to day use, particularly when working with other people using conventional Linux/Mac/Windows?

I have witnessed dozens of people making vague statements about how awestruck they are with plan9's vision, and I've always wondered what exactly they mean.

It's difficult to encapsulate specifics because it's a large amount of small details in the design decisions that end up adding up to a lot. You don't need Docker, you don't need Nix, you don't need NFS or SSHFS or Samba. The world doesn't need web browsers to do as much as they already do. So much tooling is made totally redundant by the emergent properties of the system. A monumental amount of engineering cruft, tacked onto *nix by the necessity of outdated system design, is simply cut away. How? It's little things like namespaces not requiring a tasteless amount of systems bureaucracy boilerplate. The amount of power that can be leveraged by shell scripts rather than dozens of low level API calls in C is not to be scoffed at. It's more than this, so much more. But it's not something you're going to "get" by reading about it.

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#76

Post by ZeroX-DG »

nicoburns wrote: post #74
ZeroX-DG wrote: post #63

Nice! I'm glad to see more people are interested in creating browser from scratch. Tho like the "OS from scratch" trend, most of those browsers won't be as nearly as performant or complete as those market-leading browsers without ton of work put into it. Making a browser is not a one man job. But it's certainly fun to make a browser! I happen to keep track of the open-source browser projects & resources here if anyon…

Huh, interesting that you implemented flow (block/inline) layout but not Flexbox or CSS Grid. I've been working on a library has the opposite! (it support Flexbox and CSS Grid, but not flow layout). Here if you're interested: https://github.com/DioxusLabs/taffy I'll definitely take a look at your browser when I get some time.

Woah, that's so cool. Maybe I'll use your library for flexbox support in my browser!

I implemented the flow layout first mainly because I didn't know how difficult it would be to support flexbox. The flow layout just seems like an easy entry point back then.

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#77

Post by ZeroX-DG »

userbinator wrote: post #70
ZeroX-DG wrote: post #63

Nice! I'm glad to see more people are interested in creating browser from scratch. Tho like the "OS from scratch" trend, most of those browsers won't be as nearly as performant or complete as those market-leading browsers without ton of work put into it. Making a browser is not a one man job. But it's certainly fun to make a browser! I happen to keep track of the open-source browser projects & resources here if anyon…

If you don't care about JS and just want a good hypertext document viewer with decent HTML and CSS support, I think it shouldn't be too hard to beat mainstream browsers on performance.

yeah that's true. A hypertext document viewer with decent HTML & CSS support is basically a stripped-off browser so it will almost always have a better performance.

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#78

Post by Kamq »

cactusplant7374 wrote: post #72
IshKebab wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely impressive, and it shows it is possible to build a new browser. I don't think it shows it is possible to build a new browser that ordinary people will use though. That requires implementing a gazillion niche features that Chrome supports, and compatibility with a gazillion broken websites. Probably with web browsers the last 0.1% is 99.9% of the work.

I've always associated advanced browser features with power users. Am I wrong?

The features they're referencing are JS apis and exact CSS behavior.

Web apps are >5MB piles of text, and they have a way of using pieces of browser behavior that you wouldn't expect.

Re: Opossum: Cross-platform web browser written in Golang, optimized for Plan 9

#80

Post by ori_b »

tombert wrote: post #79

Serious question: is anyone here using Plan 9 for daily operation?

Posted from 9front (using netsurf).

I also run https://shithub.us, which is hosted from plan 9, and more or less needs plan 9 for push access. It uses the hjgit:// protocol for push access, which requires plan9 auth to establish the channel. The fact that there are so many repos up should give a hint at how active the community is.

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