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Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

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Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#151

Post by j45 »

nimbius wrote: post #45
PreInternet01 wrote: post #5

More correct albeit less clickbaity headline: recent builds of Microsoft Edge will uninstall any remnants of Internet Explorer from your PC and replace them with compatibility shims, so most legacy apps should continue to work as-is. On Windows Server platforms, where IE11 is still inexplicably the default experience even in the most recent 2022 editions, you can still enjoy its full functionality, until you explicit…

>and replace them with compatibility shims christ can you imagine the raw hubris in 1995 to roll this out and inexplicably make it not only uninstallable by the user, but a core and critical functionality of your entire OS such that any attempt to sidestep or evade it would be met with ruination? Its so bombastic the US Justice department hauls your pepsi sipping CEO in for a round of slouching, hand-waving antitrust…

Hubris? No such thing at that time. They had to find a way to get things done, which were breaking all the time. Imagine node breaking something every release but a web browser. There was little choice then, compared to too many options today. Firefox was able to be a bit more of a stable presence than the rest in that time.

Devs had to manage every incompatibility between every tag implementation in every browser, especially ways to gracefully downgrade for older and older versions of IE especially in early B2B SaaS. Ironically, these skills have turned out to be incredibly valuable now for other applications for optimizing user experiences even if they're anonymous.

It was that way for a long time that made browser makers learn the hard way why compatibility was a good thing and would not be less competitive.

Looking forward to safari is everything on iOS going away soon.

Thankfully such opinions of the past have to live with the fact that modern javascript apps in many ways, with AJAX calls were invented by Microsoft, no less for the online version of Microsoft Outlook.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#152

Post by baronswindle »

brk wrote: post #144
Lapsa wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's one thing I genuinely admire Microsoft for - the effort they put into maintenance

I somewhat agree, but even that is only for capitalistic reasons. If they didn't have the massive backwards compatibility, corporate users would essentially be free to choose a new OS platform every few years. By maintaining deep legacy software support, they make it easy for their customers to stay addicted to Windows. MS is not doing this for your benefit, or out of some kind of dedication, it's pure capitalism.

Sure, but I think this is an example of markets working well. Customers don’t want to have to adapt to a new platform every year and are willing to pay for that service. Microsoft recognizes that desire and provides backward compatibility. Microsoft charges a price above what it costs to provide the service but below what their customers are willing to pay. Both parties win. Seems like a good thing.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#153

Post by brk »

baronswindle wrote: post #152
brk wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat agree, but even that is only for capitalistic reasons. If they didn't have the massive backwards compatibility, corporate users would essentially be free to choose a new OS platform every few years. By maintaining deep legacy software support, they make it easy for their customers to stay addicted to Windows. MS is not doing this for your benefit, or out of some kind of dedication, it's pure capitalism.

Sure, but I think this is an example of markets working well. Customers don’t want to have to adapt to a new platform every year and are willing to pay for that service. Microsoft recognizes that desire and provides backward compatibility. Microsoft charges a price above what it costs to provide the service but below what their customers are willing to pay. Both parties win. Seems like a good thing.

Rarely have I seen "both parties win" used in describing dealing with Microsoft.

There is tons of documented history of their anti-competitive behavior and deceptive practices. It is not very often that a CEO of a company in a market that is "working well" is called to testify in front of Congress.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#154

Post by mrdatawolf »

asdff wrote: post #102
horsawlarway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very strange comment. Personally... I absolutely understand exactly how they ended up in this situation. There are actually several good reasons to embed the browser into the OS, the top two easily understood ones are... --- 1. They've put a lot of work into the browser, and they've shared many components of it with other tooling. EX: Internet EXPLORER and EXPLORER the file system browser don't share their…

Microsoft only cares about legacy support if it means the vast majority of customers. I will give you an example: go to a top tier research institution for biology, and sort your cells with the fluorescence-activated cell sorter (FACS). You might have to now burn that data onto a cd rom, because the software running the six figure instrument was written in 2002 for windows XP, and for reasons only known to microsoft,…

Your vendor didn't provide you with free updates to match changes in the larger OS ecosystem. Then you get mad at the larger OS for not supporting the niche software of your vendor. BTW neither the vendor nor the OS maker is the problem. You are. Your entitlement that the world should grind to a halt to wait for you is.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#155

Post by disruptiveink »

bobjordan wrote: post #6

This is a serious problem for us in my business as our business banking software we are forced to use by our bank in mainland China still only works with IE. I spent an hour last night ultimately inputting shady commands into my registry, to try to force IE to open instead of being hijacked by edge. When an entire industry in a country refuses to upgrade what the hell? Of course I’m pissed the bank hadn’t upgraded bu…

And now they'll finally fix it, as they have no other choice. You can thank MS for that.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#156

Post by Asmod4n »

jonathantf2 wrote: post #92
Asmod4n wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

75% of PCs I had the pleasure today to „patch“ didn’t have IE Mode at all in edge, but still removed IE. Fun times.

IE mode has been around for ages, either push it through MDM or GPO.

Windows home edition, we don’t control those PCs, the clients buy them themselves.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#157

Post by dahdum »

sentientslug wrote: post #148
jiggawatts wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you expect a 20-year-old MacOS to run on a modern MacBook? Why not? Would you expect a 20-year-old Linux to install just fine on a modern PC? I remind you that this was the era of RHEL 3! I had trouble getting RHEL 6 running in a virtual machine just recently. Meanwhile XP will run on most modern PCs, it’s just not supported . That means no security patches. The mistake here is not Microsoft’s. The mistake is y…

Respectfully you have no idea what you're talking about. These half-million dollar devices (often more expensive than that) were the ONLY option at the time to perform certain kinds of experiments. Not exactly a choice.

So the vendor refuses to sell a support plan and requires you to purchase a brand new machine? That does sound monopolistic and abusive but I don’t see how Microsoft is to blame.

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#158

Post by vouwfietsman »

sentientslug wrote: post #148
jiggawatts wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you expect a 20-year-old MacOS to run on a modern MacBook? Why not? Would you expect a 20-year-old Linux to install just fine on a modern PC? I remind you that this was the era of RHEL 3! I had trouble getting RHEL 6 running in a virtual machine just recently. Meanwhile XP will run on most modern PCs, it’s just not supported . That means no security patches. The mistake here is not Microsoft’s. The mistake is y…

Respectfully you have no idea what you're talking about. These half-million dollar devices (often more expensive than that) were the ONLY option at the time to perform certain kinds of experiments. Not exactly a choice.

Respectfully you have no idea how complex an OS is and how completely nonsensical it is to expect 100% backwards compatibility for 2 decades later. There is a reason software gets sunsetted: most of it is irrelevant 20 years later and holding on to it makes everything much more complex than it already is. Especially for a consumer OS like windows, where you can expect the vast majority of people to upgrade.

If this is some multi-million dollar device then maybe keeping it up to date with windows should have been part of the deal...

Did you know windows is basically known for excellent backwards compatibility? https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/05/24/strategy-letter-ii...

Re: Microsoft is forcibly removing internet explorer from PCs

#159

Post by asdff »

mrdatawolf wrote: post #154
asdff wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft only cares about legacy support if it means the vast majority of customers. I will give you an example: go to a top tier research institution for biology, and sort your cells with the fluorescence-activated cell sorter (FACS). You might have to now burn that data onto a cd rom, because the software running the six figure instrument was written in 2002 for windows XP, and for reasons only known to microsoft,…

Your vendor didn't provide you with free updates to match changes in the larger OS ecosystem. Then you get mad at the larger OS for not supporting the niche software of your vendor. BTW neither the vendor nor the OS maker is the problem. You are. Your entitlement that the world should grind to a halt to wait for you is.

Is having a unix philosophy on software entitled? Then I guess I am then.
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