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Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#181

Post by peyton »

dajtxx wrote: post #162
twblalock wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like quite a lot of guilds and unions, the actor's guild started out by defending workers rights against a restrictive system (in that case, the Hollywood studio system) but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else. We really, really don't want that in tech. Tech is one of the few segments of the economy where skill trumps credenti…

Skill trumping credentials and connections has not been my experience in a 35 year career. The gatekeeping by recruiters and HR departments is extreme - until I got my CS degree a couple of years ago I could not get interviews anywhere, despite the fact I'd never been sacked from a job and was always one of the best coders in my teams with the broadest range of experience. I lucked out many years ago on getting an in…

I would not call a degree requirement extreme gatekeeping.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#182

Post by willcipriano »

lucidguppy wrote: post #63
Chyzwar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like Anarcho-syndicalism[1]. I am rooting for you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism#:~:text=An... .

We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting. By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--

Anarchy in the context of nuclear power, by WKUK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibDNwF8bjs

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#183

Post by filmgirlcw »

harshalizee wrote: post #43
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

I always thought having a "guild" like Hollywood does or something similar would be a great boon to empower tech workers. Of course, it wouldn't be 1:1 mapping, but a collective tech union-like open institution would go far in leveraging against hostile employers. CEOs get golden parachutes on signing. It's time tech workers start demanding what their exit package looks like in case of layoffs/reductions against thei…

I don’t think the production guild system works in tech. In Hollywood, guilds and unions are necessary and work, in part because most people in the guild are independent contractors. Each production is its own thing. And that assignment could last a day, a few weeks, a few months, or years (depending on your contract/position), but it’s not an ongoing concern.

Whereas in tech, that isn’t the case for the majority of the employees at large companies. Yes, you have consultants and contractors, hit the vast majority of people at Google or Microsoft or Facebook are full-time employees, not hired on a project by project basis.

And that changes both the incentive structure and the organizing power. There are other unions that could be better parallels to trying to organize tech — but I don’t think the Hollywood guild system is the one to try to copy. You’d need to have specific unions covering each company (even if many companies were still affiliated with the same umbrella union) and carve outs and contracts for each company or even subgroup of workers inside a company. You couldn’t just do a blanket SAG-AFTRA style guild for everyone at every company when most of the employees are not on contract but full-time. It just wouldn’t work.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#184

Post by twblalock »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #174
twblalock wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work. I have been a member of several unions and I know what I'm talking about. You can disagree if you want, but I am speaking from real life experience.

If you haven’t been a member of SAG, you don’t know what you are talking about. I’ve been a member of SAG (as a child, but still!) and the WGA (as an adult). The systems are imperfect. They are also significantly better than productions with no guild affiliation.

Sounds like you don't know any other reality.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#186

Post by andrewjmg »

hankish wrote: post #156
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

What a brilliant idea! Me and a bunch of other folks have been working for the last 18 months to create just such a professional collective, with the goal of expanding it massively. Lots of laid off workers are joining and everything is cooperatively-managed, self-organizing and transparent. It's a combination of a professional network, a full service consultancy, a skills academy, and a startup incubator. We've got…

quorum honestly looks fantastic. thanks for this!

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#188

Post by mrtrombone »

marcusverus wrote: post #101
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. I for one can't think of a less attractive idea than taking a product idea that I love and turning ownership and creative control over to a group of strangers. And that's probably why these things are so r…

The company Torchbox (creators of Wagtail CMS) are an interesting example of an employee owned company. In their case it was a matter of the founders selling/moving most of their ownership to an Employee Owned Trust (as opposed to starting as a coop from scratch) - EOT is an interesting option in the UK with tax incentives to make it work.

https://torchbox.com/careers/employee-owned-trust

https://baxendaleownership.co.uk/torchbox-digital-agency-mov...

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Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#189

Post by kayodelycaon »

WheatMillington wrote: post #108
nxm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And expect lower salaries as a result. Nothing is free

Do you have any examples of where labour organisation has led to lower pay?

I seem to recall companies closing stores that voted to unionize. /s
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