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Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#171

Post by justeleblanc »

marcusverus wrote: post #101
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. I for one can't think of a less attractive idea than taking a product idea that I love and turning ownership and creative control over to a group of strangers. And that's probably why these things are so r…

> It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain.

If that were true, there would be no successful co-ops anywhere in any field of work. That's obviously not the case. Just look at this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cooperatives#United_St... if you're from the USA, I'm sure you'll be able to recognize a name or two.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#172

Post by splitstud »

JohnFen wrote: post #76
asdff wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software development has arguably more gatekeeping even without any guild. Got a CS degree from a university that isn't R1 and didn't score a summer internship? Need a visa sponsor? I don't envy how painful your early career will be. Luck out with the Stanford admission and a summer internship? You are playing on easy mode.

It depends on what part of the industry you're working in. If you're looking at FAANG-style companies, that's absolutely true. But there's much more to the industry than that.

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#173

Post by quartesixte »

asdff wrote: post #129
JohnFen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people have a huge leg up right now in large swaths of the industry anyway. The issue with the "proof of work" standard is it sets up a difficult conundrum. You need to work to join the guild, and you need to be a guild member to get most work.

You can get hired for guild work as a non guild member, usually you join the guild after though.

And that is the main gatekeeping mechanism that keeps so many talented young writers, actors, cinematographers, etc. out of the game or working for pennies on the dollar as assistants.

It’s great when you’re in but if you don’t have the connections to get in you can find yourself on the outs for years.

If a SWE guild can find a way to eliminate the nepotism and create a meritocratic way to get into a guild…

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#174

Post by filmgirlcw »

twblalock wrote: post #152
gamblor956 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else. This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work. SAG does not prohibit non-union actors in SAG-covered productions. In fact, appearing in a SAG-covered production is how one qualifies for membership into SAG. SAG set…

> This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work. I have been a member of several unions and I know what I'm talking about. You can disagree if you want, but I am speaking from real life experience.

If you haven’t been a member of SAG, you don’t know what you are talking about.

I’ve been a member of SAG (as a child, but still!) and the WGA (as an adult). The systems are imperfect. They are also significantly better than productions with no guild affiliation.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#175

Post by neilv »

jjgreen wrote: post #13

We're sitting in the park, drinking Thunderbird and arguing with the pigeons.

Lost original lyrics to Little River Band's "Reminiscing":

    o/~ We'll be sitting in the park
        sipping Thunderbird till dark
        debating pigeons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBETVhHpcPk

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#176

Post by bilqis »

danuker wrote: post #157
marcusverus wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. I for one can't think of a less attractive idea than taking a product idea that I love and turning ownership and creative control over to a group of strangers. And that's probably why these things are so r…

A co-op doesn't mean everyone must share profits equally. How about an internal market where people bid for tickets? There are crypto projects facilitating governance of organizations. They could help both enforce and simplify keeping records. Example: https://aragon.org/ Edit: Earlier I suggested hiring people for internal-money, but that might be tax evasion. Don't do it without consulting lawyers in your country.

No reason to turn everything into market, and use blockchain for voting automation or partial governance, especially seeing what clownshow DAOs have been.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#177

Post by eat »

marcusverus wrote: post #101
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. I for one can't think of a less attractive idea than taking a product idea that I love and turning ownership and creative control over to a group of strangers. And that's probably why these things are so r…

> The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain.

You could say the same thing to describe working for any corporation.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#178

Post by itronitron »

bradwood wrote: post #96
lucidguppy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting. By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--

... King Arthur: I am your king. Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you. King Arthur: You don't vote for kings. Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then? King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king. Dennis the Peasant: Lis…

Randall: Look, do you want to be leader of this gang?

Strutter: No, we agreed: No leader!

Randall: Right. So shut up and do as I say.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#179

Post by quartesixte »

gamblor956 wrote: post #160
twblalock wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work. I have been a member of several unions and I know what I'm talking about. You can disagree if you want, but I am speaking from real life experience.

I am speaking from a position of legal expertise about how Hollywood unions function. I have been part of the legal counsel to several Hollywood guilds/unions, and have participated in the production of multiple Hollywood and non-Hollywood productions. Like you, I was also a member of a non-Hollywood union (while I was in the public sector), though that experience is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

What you see from the legal perspective vs the actual on-the-ground wheeling, dealing, favor-trading, social circle maintaining, networking actions to even get onto a union production as a non-union worker can be quite a big spread.

The intended legal requirement can be very different from the way it’s practiced on the ground.

My own attempts to break-in + friends’ experiences shows a clear pattern: the guilds gatekeep, almost arbitrarily, and creates environments primed for abuse.

Perhaps the legal, corporate side of the guilds should realign with the reality on the ground and change this. That is, if this is an undesirable state of affairs.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#180

Post by bilqis »

BurningFrog wrote: post #170
asdff wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software development has arguably more gatekeeping even without any guild. Got a CS degree from a university that isn't R1 and didn't score a summer internship? Need a visa sponsor? I don't envy how painful your early career will be. Luck out with the Stanford admission and a summer internship? You are playing on easy mode.

Strong disagreement! Software is the high paying industry with the least gatekeeping I'm aware of. I never got around to finish my degree. Neither did Bill Gates. I've worked with highschool dropouts and Harvard graduates. And by and large, nobody cares!

Did you also have generational wealth and networking like Bill Gates?
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