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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#251

Post by forrestthewoods »

denton-scratch wrote: post #205
Alupis wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sales Tax probably should be done-away with. In California, you are taxed when you earn a dollar, and taxed when you spend that same dollar. If you look at your bank account and it's balance is $100, you do not actually have $100 in purchasing power, but rather 7-12% less, because sales tax will be computed when you spend this money. Why not just charge the appropriate amount for Income Tax and be done with it...

Sales taxes penalize poorer people, who spend a greater proportion of their income. They are regressive and unfair. In the UK we have two different kinds of income tax; one is called National Insurance, but it's not insurance at all. It's there so that the government can brag about reducing income tax. When the UK joined the EU, we had to introduce sales tax (VAT). Part of the VAT receipts were to fund the EU. Note t…

> Sales taxes penalize poorer people, who spend a greater proportion of their income. They are regressive and unfair.

It's only unfair if the collected tax revenue isn't used to benefit the poor.

The US has one of the most progressive tax systems on the planet. Sweden has one of the most regressive [1]. A tax being regressive or progressive doesn't make it inherently bad or good. And if a country can't effectively utilize tax revenue then it doesn't matter who foots the bill.

[1] https://www.vox.com/2014/10/8/6946565/progressive-taxes-are-...

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#252

Post by kyrra »

nostromo wrote: post #229
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

> airlines where the base price is akin to "we let you hang on to the wing", and everything else is an upcharge This legislation wouldn't stop that, nor resort fees, because they're not required. It would however effect Airbnb, one of the worst offenders, because their fees are mandatory and not shown until checkout. It's funny the government has exempted its own taxes and fees (the largest last minute fees we all pa…

While i agree with you on the taxes front, one hard thing is that not everyone pays it. Depending on what's being sold and who the buyer is, the buyer may have tax exempt status, which may not be known until checkout.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#253

Post by novok »

californical wrote: post #230
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think fraud is a good analogy - the whole point with fraud is that you are getting something different after you agreed to it, when it's too late to back out. Going back to the airline example, most people say they hate getting nickel and dimed on things like paying to pick a seat up front or paying even for the first carry-on, but they will still pick one flight over another if the base rate is $5 cheaper. A…

I know I’m not an outlier, but this is why I’ve historically stuck with Delta as an airline. They’re not perfect either, but they give you the main things you’d need for a flight in the base price, and are generally pretty flexible and reasonable with things like bag size. Unless they’re way more expensive, I’ll still pick them for a slightly higher price over the others, because I know that I’ll get a good experienc…

Why stick with delta vs other majors, like united, southwest or american airlines? Frontier acting like that just seems consummate with their low price tier like spirit.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#254

Post by yamtaddle »

meltedcapacitor wrote: post #209
yamtaddle wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's weird, at least in the US, is that the higher-end the joint, the easier it is to shop by price, generally. Tax-inclusive, whole-dollar-value (no "$7.99" crap, it's just "8"), all-prices-aligned menus are more common as one heads up-scale.

Makes sense: at the high end of the market, patrons need to be able to identify and get the most expensive option to impress their date/mates, and understandably restaurants want to be helpful. (See "Veblen goods".)

Kinda, but it seems pretty common anywhere remotely "hip", not just fancy $150/head restaurants. It seems to be almost a cultural/class thing rather than being restricted to super-expensive places. You can find $9 (exactly) burgers commonly-enough, and by the time you're up to $35/head being a common bill (without drinks) it's practically the norm. I'll grant the higher end of that range may read as impressive and the kind of thing some demographic might spend for the sake of spending that much money, but I don't think the lower end does. (exact range may vary, but that's what it's like in my city)

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#255

Post by IncRnd »

anon84873628 wrote: post #196
IncRnd wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you interpret the text to mean that? Higher conversion doesn't mean nothing was purchased. the opposite nearly always results in higher conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and fees are only tacked on during checkout.

Your parent meant _some_ people end up purchasing nothing, when the initial price shown is higher. Basically the top of the funnel is more price sensitive than after they have already progressed a bit towards the purchase.

Thank you. I do understand that, but that comment was in the context of being an interpretation of something that clearly didn't state that, which is why I asked for clarification as to how that interpretation had come about.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#256

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #97
dangwhy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tipping This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.

Not only that, but now everyone wants tips for things which never expected it before. Food cart? Tip. Fast food drive-thru? Tip. Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too. Then there are tips that I apparently don't really know about but if I don't, I'm the jerk. I never knew I was supposed to tip the natural gas guy when he comes by to do som…

> Heck, my barber now charges $25 for a haircut (which takes all of 15 minutes) and we're expected to tip for that too.

I think this comment perfectly encapsulates why tipping has exploded and why it's never going away. People say they hate tips, but they complain vehemently when the base price of those goods rises to a decent wage.

In most urban areas I'd posit the reason for the explosion of tipping is because of the growing wealth inequality and explosion in housing costs. I'd bet that your barber is having a hell of a harder time making ends meet than, say, your average software developer compared to 10 years ago.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#257

Post by ac29 »

ensignavenger wrote: post #80
zamadatix wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often is sales tax changing that it becomes infeasible to update the shelf price tags? The grocery stores seem to handle it just fine changing the "buy one get one" type tags every month!

They aren't changing every single tag in the store.

Even if they were, Eink tags that can be updated wirelessly are dirt cheap (certainly not as cheap as paper tags, but you also dont have to pay someone to go around and change them).

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#258

Post by russdill »

tehranian wrote: post #144

>>> The legislation — the first bill of its type across the state — would prohibit advertising a price for a good or service that does not include all required charges other than taxes and fees imposed by a government. >>> “Californians are sick and tired of dishonest fees being tacked on to seemingly everything,” said state Senator Bill Dodd. “It’s an underhanded trick... Why do government-imposed fees get a special…

Because they vary based on the municipality you live in.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#259

Post by HDThoreaun »

dangwhy wrote: post #86
grahar64 wrote: post #27

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.

> tipping This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.

Just because the option is there on the tablet doesn't mean it's expected. Counter serve food/takeout and basic coffee will 95% of the time not get a tip from me.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#260

Post by ezfe »

manquer wrote: post #77
zamadatix wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often is sales tax changing that it becomes infeasible to update the shelf price tags? The grocery stores seem to handle it just fine changing the "buy one get one" type tags every month!

A lot harder to do online without knowing the zip code . People are sometimes vary of sharing that just to see full price

Sites have already solved that for shipping costs - you just have a button that offers to include shipping (and then tax) with a location entered
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