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Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#141

Post by gamblor956 »

twblalock wrote: post #92
harshalizee wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought having a "guild" like Hollywood does or something similar would be a great boon to empower tech workers. Of course, it wouldn't be 1:1 mapping, but a collective tech union-like open institution would go far in leveraging against hostile employers. CEOs get golden parachutes on signing. It's time tech workers start demanding what their exit package looks like in case of layoffs/reductions against thei…

Like quite a lot of guilds and unions, the actor's guild started out by defending workers rights against a restrictive system (in that case, the Hollywood studio system) but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else. We really, really don't want that in tech. Tech is one of the few segments of the economy where skill trumps credenti…

but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else.

This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work.

SAG does not prohibit non-union actors in SAG-covered productions. In fact, appearing in a SAG-covered production is how one qualifies for membership into SAG.

SAG sets minimum thresholds for pay, benefits, and rights. Actors are free to negotiate better packages if they have the leverage for it. Most don't, which is why the actor-waiter meme is a thing for people hoping to get cast into a SAG-covered role. As someone who has appeared as a background actor in a SAG-covered production: SAG minimums are significantly higher than non-SAG pay, at every level.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#142

Post by hankish »

asim wrote: post #32
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

I always surmised that this was the only way to compete with Google and others. Even if you had 10k engineers, heck 1000 engineers who did it, it would be a formidable force. But actually doing it. That's the hard part.

We're actually doing it right now at Quorum1, fwiw. It has been hard, but it's working. Maybe join us and help make it work even better? >> https://wiki.quorum.one/blog/what-is-quorum1

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#144

Post by hankish »

inadequatespace wrote: post #50
nanomonkey wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loomio [ https://www.loomio.com/ ] would be a great forum, cooperative decision making tool for running such a group. The next step would be building out any tools that are not covered by loomio and the likes.

Do you have experience with this tool?

Loomio is a great tool. It works great for certain types of things but I've struggled to really build an effective worker community with it multiple times. At the end of the day, voting on proposals is not a terribly effective nor scalable form of democratic governance.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#145

Post by nanomonkey »

inadequatespace wrote: post #50
nanomonkey wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loomio [ https://www.loomio.com/ ] would be a great forum, cooperative decision making tool for running such a group. The next step would be building out any tools that are not covered by loomio and the likes.

Do you have experience with this tool?

Yes, we use it at the Hackerspace that I used to go to before the pandemic.

It helps if your community has experience with running a cooperative community. Things like Robert's Rules of Engagement, active listening, differences between a super majority and majority...it's important to not have to reinvent the wheel and have some experience with democratic decision making progressions.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#146

Post by aaomidi »

twblalock wrote: post #115
aaomidi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies in new areas of technology generally started with a concentration of power and after a while that concentration of power goes away. Every new tech has effectively had this. Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses. So yeah it’s gonna be hard to find examples of successful coops.

> Anyway our economic model is toxic to cooperative businesses. I don't really buy that. Our economic model rewards businesses that make money. In tech, you don't even need to make a profit, just having a lot of revenue is enough to get a ton of investment (although that might be changing, and that change is probably good). If a software co-op could succeed as a business, why hasn't that happened?

Models of company ownership don't really extend properly into cooperative companies. Raising funds is neigh impossible.

B2B relationships are extremely difficult with cooperative business models due to a lack of understanding (both on law side and just "personal feels" side of things).

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#147

Post by hankish »

janalsncm wrote: post #20
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

What products would companies/individuals pay for?

My org is starting with B2B SaaS products. If you can move these into a cooperatively managed framework you drive long term value while also building networks with successful businesses. It's a major opportunity because so many B2B SaaS platforms are super overpriced. The client companies are basically overpaying in order to pay back the VC investors. If you start out without any of that overhead you can offer a completely different funding model.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#148

Post by hankish »

xwdv wrote: post #48
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

This is a pipe dream. The only thing laid off workers care about is making money, not wasting time working for free.

It's not a pipe dream! We've got a collective structured in exactly this manner with over 100 people, growing by ~1 person per day and things are going great! Join us and see, if you're interested. :)

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#149

Post by Kye »

roguecoder wrote: post #134
bradwood wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... King Arthur: I am your king. Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you. King Arthur: You don't vote for kings. Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then? King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king. Dennis the Peasant: Lis…

That scene was based on an actual historical village communities, such as those in Castile, and the later medieval conflict between the historically self-governing communities and the centralized order that had previously tolerated them: https://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/220237/1/06_Communit...

It's amazing how much better media inspired by history is when it's based on real history and not the mythologized version. I noticed this recently rewatching the Pirates of the Carribean series (mythologized), then Black Sails (closer to reality, especially after season 2 when the showrunner read some current literature on pirates). It turns out a lot of pirate ships were democracies, they were often pro-abolition and happy to take on freed slaves as crew, and they didn't much care who you loved.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#150

Post by hankish »

matchagaucho wrote: post #72
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

Tech Co-ops backed by crypto contracts representing fractional equity ownership are emerging. They are a logical evolution of the Digital Nomad movement from years past (some emerged from Upwork). However, each member is expected to be an independent LLC and handle their own country-specific revenue withholdings and taxes.

Yep, this is definitely happening, I'm part of one such group. There's a whole community of decentralized worker collectives working on doing the hard work of getting these models to function.
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