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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#181

Post by ensignavenger »

zamadatix wrote: post #85
ensignavenger wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't changing every single tag in the store.

I'd hope not every month! But even if taxes changed yearly is that really a large burden? How many things even stay in the same shelf at the same price for 1 year straight as it is, how many dozens of times was that shelf already restocked and inventoried compared to how often the price tag would need to be replaced due to taxes changing?

In my state, taxes change at least twice a year, and usually 3 times at a minimum. Changing what shelf products are on is a continuous, incremental thing- changing every tag in the store for tax changes would have to happen overnight for all products, on specific nights each year.

Many stores like to pre-tag each product package, either at the store or manufacturer- you couldn't do that if the tax had to be included in the price as the stores have many locations each with different tax rates. (I do think the tax rates should be prominently posted at the door).

Sales tax compliance is already a massive PITA for retail stores. Making them include the sales tax on the tag would just be an even bigger PITA.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#182

Post by SnowingXIV »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

It's become rampant in travel. Booked a simple vacation to Vegas recently. Between flights with their multiple fees you mentioned, hotels that almost are always charging a per day resort fee, and then ticket sales to any event that has multiple processing fees. I don't know how this happened but it's horrible.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#183

Post by yamtaddle »

spiffytech wrote: post #159
slg wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is also a case where consumers say they want one thing, but their behavior is a different matter. For example, pretty much everyone says they prefer the full price to be shown up front in search result pages. But, as someone who is privy to a ton of A/B testing in this area, the opposite nearly always results in higher conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and fees are only tacked on during checkout…

It doesn't need to be fraud. A common trick in designing restaurant menus is to make it harder to scan the price list, because people buy the food they prefer when price is one of many considerations rather than prominently highlighted. > Centred Justification > When prices are printed in neat, right-justified columns, everyone glances down the line to compare prices. Menu consultants recommend a centred justificatio…

What's weird, at least in the US, is that the higher-end the joint, the easier it is to shop by price, generally. Tax-inclusive, whole-dollar-value (no "$7.99" crap, it's just "8"), all-prices-aligned menus are more common as one heads up-scale.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#184

Post by Alupis »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #10

I wish they would treat sales tax as a hidden fee. Just show the actual damn price up front plzkthx.

Sales Tax probably should be done-away with.

In California, you are taxed when you earn a dollar, and taxed when you spend that same dollar.

If you look at your bank account and it's balance is $100, you do not actually have $100 in purchasing power, but rather 7-12% less, because sales tax will be computed when you spend this money.

Why not just charge the appropriate amount for Income Tax and be done with it...

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#185

Post by wpietri »

yamtaddle wrote: post #91
wpietri wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

> It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. It really doesn't. It's been a stealth way to increase your rates for a long time now. > I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. They do, but it makes comparing rentals (both within AirBnB and across services) a pain in the ass, because it's not factored into the initial rate-per-night that you see and that the…

> > It represents an actual cost for an actual activity.

> It really doesn't. It's been a stealth way to increase your rates for a long time now.

Two things can be true at once.

Cleaning is an actual activity they actually have to do after I leave. There are actual costs. E.g., they might use a service that specializes in vacation rental cleaning: https://cleaningglow.com/san-francisco-services/vacation-ren...

Do some people inflate the fee as a way of increasing your rates? Surely. But that's only a problem when the comparison price doesn't include it, a problem I agree we should solve. I'd just like the fee to also be listed somewhere, as it makes other comparisons easier for some people, me included.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#186

Post by denton-scratch »

jimkleiber wrote: post #140

> The legislation — the first bill of its type across the state — would prohibit advertising a price for a good or service that does not include all required charges other than taxes and fees imposed by a government. I don't get it, so it's OK for government to hide its fees but not the business? I wish the government were to lead by example and also try to eliminate hidden government fees. Here in California, differ…

> I don't get it, so it's OK for government to hide its fees but not the business?

Other way round; the bill would make it mandatory to include all fees except the government's fees.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#187

Post by [deleted] »

yamtaddle wrote: post #160
tomschlick wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has way less to do with any "awareness campaign" and more to do with how tax rates are different in many municipalities that are very close to each other and how hard that makes advertising. For instance, the famous "$5 footlong" from Subway couldn't be advertised that way nationally, or even within a single state or metro area due to different taxes on prepared food.

Are local sales taxes just a US thing? How do so very many other developed countries manage this just fine?

[deleted]

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#188

Post by yamtaddle »

acdha wrote: post #177
IncRnd wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is also a case where consumers say they want one thing, but their behavior is a different matter. For example, pretty much everyone says they prefer the full price to be shown up front in search result pages. But, as someone who is privy to a ton of A/B testing in this area, the opposite nearly always results in higher conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and fees are only tacked on during checkou…

I wouldn’t read the claim as “consumers secretly do like hidden fees” but rather “people say they don’t like them but don’t actually care enough to stop giving money to companies which use them”. It’s like how people might say they want to eat better food if you ask them directly but when you record what they actually eat it ends up looking quite different. On HN you’ll see a similar dynamic with privacy, business et…

People who've already wasted time getting to the point where they can see the fees, and are confident that all your competitors do the same thing anyway, aren't likely to bail over them.

That's probably the most accurate way to state the "preference".

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#189

Post by diebeforei485 »

logifail wrote: post #108
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

> this ease of price comparison has resulted in unbundling of services in a number of industries - e.g. airlines where the base price is akin to "we let you hang on to the wing" I'm literally just booking a trip with Ryanair, Vienna to London, in just less than a month's time. It's costing me a shade less than $20 for a 770 mile flight, no hidden fees during my purchase... No, it doesn't include a large carry-on bag,…

These are all optional - you don't have to pay them if you don't use those services. They wouldn't be affected by this bill.

"Resort fees" or "amenity fees" are not optional. Even if you don't use the services in those fees, you still have to pay them. Those are what are being clamped down on.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#190

Post by vineyardmike »

shagie wrote: post #70
grahar64 wrote: post #27

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.

> to taxes not in the sale price This gets complicated and there's good reason. The taxes depend on where you take possession of the goods. If you purchase an item and walk up to the checkout counter, you pay the taxes there. On the other hand, if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%). So, putting the taxes on the lum…

If you buy something in one state and drive it to another then you’re supposed to be taxes based on the destination when you “import” it.

If you sell to Missouri, you pay Missouri tax. It’s not actually complicated. I’m not sure what you’re trying to solve?

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