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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#141

Post by lazyasciiart »

mattficke wrote: post #117
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

Airlines are an interesting an example because the FAA required them to advertise all-inclusive pricing a decade ago. The extras they charge for now (checked bags, bigger seats, nonstop flights) really are optional —- I routinely pack light and pass on any upgrades. People who need to check a bag can include that in their price comparison. For hotels, it’s fine to charge extra for access to the pool or whatever as lo…

In my experience hotels are free to add daily “resort fees” that cover whatever they want, no option to decline.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#142

Post by jstarfish »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

> This is also a case where consumers say they want one thing, but their behavior is a different matter. For example, pretty much everyone says they prefer the full price to be shown up front in search result pages. But, as someone who is privy to a ton of A/B testing in this area, the opposite nearly always results in higher conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and fees are only tacked on during checkout.

You think your customers don't know what they're talking about...because the data you gleaned from abusing them says otherwise?

Dictator logic: "My approval rate is 100%! People clearly love what I'm doing!"

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#143

Post by bradleyjg »

mattficke wrote: post #117
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

Airlines are an interesting an example because the FAA required them to advertise all-inclusive pricing a decade ago. The extras they charge for now (checked bags, bigger seats, nonstop flights) really are optional —- I routinely pack light and pass on any upgrades. People who need to check a bag can include that in their price comparison. For hotels, it’s fine to charge extra for access to the pool or whatever as lo…

One interesting wrinkle is sitting next to another person on your ticket. By all rights it should be optional but person after person books the no assigned seat option and then is outraged that they are not seated next to their companions.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#144

Post by tehranian »

>>> The legislation — the first bill of its type across the state — would prohibit advertising a price for a good or service that does not include all required charges other than taxes and fees imposed by a government.

>>> “Californians are sick and tired of dishonest fees being tacked on to seemingly everything,” said state Senator Bill Dodd. “It’s an underhanded trick...

Why do government-imposed fees get a special exemption these "dishonest" and "underhanded" tricks? :thinking:

;)

Note: In Europe, the advertised price always includes the related taxes: https://www.quora.com/Do-prices-in-Europe-include-taxes

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#145

Post by IncRnd »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #130
vkou wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, of course bait-and-switch is going to result in a higher conversion rate than showing the price up front. I'd like to not be swindled, but if the marketplace is half-swindlers and half-honest people, it's highly likely I'll be taken in by the former. What the kind of heuristic am I expected to use to avoid getting swindled?

>What the kind of heuristic am I expected to use to avoid getting swindled? Giant, bold text that says "price is all-inclusive. No additional fees!"

At checkout, when there are no additional fees:

Customer: What is this extra fee on my bill?

Business: There is no extra fee.

Customer: It's this number right here. That's a fee. Why is it there?

Business: No no no. That's not a fee. It's for your benefit.

Consumer: What does that even mean?

Business: That's a final emolument that is used to keep costs for consumers low and fee-free. Everybody pays it, since it is for your safety and benefit. Final emoluments like this are mandated, since we are completely free of hidden fees.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#146

Post by jimkleiber »

twblalock wrote: post #68
forrestthewoods wrote: post #10

I wish they would treat sales tax as a hidden fee. Just show the actual damn price up front plzkthx.

If we had a standard sales tax, sure. But when sales taxes vary by city and county, like they do in California, it's very painful to do that -- and that's only 1 of the 50 states!

It's also very painful for me to have to guess the final price with all these different sales taxes. I think maybe if it had to be included in the final price, then the cities and counties might standardize a bit more.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#147

Post by novok »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

Extra fees later on is exploiting people who have invested time into the buying process and now have a higher price for saying no vs. whatever the extra fee is. It's rational consumer behavior, but it is not what you actually think it is.

Vast majority of A/B testing schemes that do gotcha pricing cannot measure the 'credit rating' that your essentially burning by doing this, and it's only sustainable if they don't have any other choice of place that doesn't do this. It's classic short term PM metrics hacking in exchange for hurting the business or industry overall.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#149

Post by yamtaddle »

gruez wrote: post #112
dangwhy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tipping This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.

>Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. Is this a fancy coffee shop thing? I admittedly don't go to cafes often, but my impression was that it's a "tipping optional" type of place (as opposed to something like full service restaurants which are tipping defacto mandatory).

It's a side-effect (uh, or, deliberate feature) of modern POS systems. Defaulting to having a tip line on receipts for e.g. a carry-out meal from a restaurant, which people never used to tip for, or showing a tip option on an iPad in a situation that never, ever called for tipping before and the worker is standing right there watching you fill tap or fill out the receipt so you feel like maybe you're being a dick (what's the norm now? Are you one of those assholes abusing sub-minimum-wage tip workers if you don't tip? Who knows!) if you don't.

Tipping was just not even considered in these transactions, before.

[EDIT] Oh, and percentage-tip defaults for situations where the norm before was maybe you toss your extra change or a $1 bill in the tip jar, and it was pretty normal not to tip at all most of the time. "18%, 20%, 25%, Custom, Skip".

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#150

Post by xbar »

IncRnd wrote: post #131
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results). Thus, there is a huge incentive fo…

> This is also a case where consumers say they want one thing, but their behavior is a different matter. For example, pretty much everyone says they prefer the full price to be shown up front in search result pages. But, as someone who is privy to a ton of A/B testing in this area, the opposite nearly always results in higher conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and fees are only tacked on during checkou…

Agreed. It seems that the A/B testing proves that humans are easily tricked, not that they like hidden fees.
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