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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the same reason we can't have the convenience of pre-filled tax returns from the IRS? People need to be able to feel the pain of the taxes they pay, because it might help bring them closer to the ideological conservative viewpoint.

Why would ensuring people know how much they are paying in taxes be a bad thing?

It's not so much the concept that's bad as the proposed execution. Bold the amount that came from tax next to the total on the receipt or similar, it'll have the same effect without requiring people agree it's more important than knowing what the actual price of something is going to be.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#82
I think a lot of comments here are missing the reason as to why these hidden fees have become so much more prevalent in the past 20 or so years. The short of it is that comparison pricing is now much easier to do because of the Internet, and many, if not a majority, of shoppers will just sort by price ascending and pick the first result (or, only pick from the first couple results).

Thus, there is a huge incentive for companies to lower the base price and then get it back with these types of fees. Even if they didn't add BS fees, this ease of price comparison has resulted in unbundling of services in a number of industries - e.g. airlines where the base price is akin to "we let you hang on to the wing", and everything else is an upcharge.

This is also a case where consumers say they want one thing, but their behavior is a different matter. For example, pretty much everyone says they prefer the full price to be shown up front in search result pages. But, as someone who is privy to a ton of A/B testing in this area, the opposite nearly always results in higher conversion, where there is a lower up-front price and fees are only tacked on during checkout.

To be clear, I'm 100% in favor of this regulation because I think it's the perfect example of where what is good for any individual company leads to a dysfunctional market, and so government can provide a level playing field. Heck, I think many businesses would support this change, because they no longer need to try to one-up their competitors by overcomplicating their pricing structure.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the same reason we can't have the convenience of pre-filled tax returns from the IRS? People need to be able to feel the pain of the taxes they pay, because it might help bring them closer to the ideological conservative viewpoint.

Why would ensuring people know how much they are paying in taxes be a bad thing?

You can do that without making them do all the paperwork. For nearly all taxpayers the IRS already knows how much you owe, and can give you a return that is already filled out. But people like Grover Norquist believe that anything that makes paying taxes easier will cause people to become more accepting of taxation in the first place. So we all need to suffer the pain of filling out a return from scratch, to make sure we have the right attitude towards taxes.

Nobody is having the information hidden from them in any case. Even pre-filled from the IRS, it would be right in front of you.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats. I have. Anecdote fight!

The point is, presumably, the websites of major hotel brands work the same for everyone. I would be interested in seeing an example of a “hidden” fee at a hotel. Same with airline prices. Google flight search has always shown me the total price, as have the airline websites themselves.

My experience is the same as yours. However I think these fees are still hidden in the sense that they're not part of the rate that's advertised everywhere, shown in the thumbnail on the hotel website, etc. It would be better if we could just trust that the advertised price would be the actual price.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often is sales tax changing that it becomes infeasible to update the shelf price tags? The grocery stores seem to handle it just fine changing the "buy one get one" type tags every month!

They aren't changing every single tag in the store.

I'd hope not every month! But even if taxes changed yearly is that really a large burden? How many things even stay in the same shelf at the same price for 1 year straight as it is, how many dozens of times was that shelf already restocked and inventoried compared to how often the price tag would need to be replaced due to taxes changing?

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#86

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.

> tipping

This has gotten ridiculous past 2-3 year. Buy a $3.00 coffee , $1 tip is expected. I hate those ipad type payment consoles.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#87
post #5

Tons of industries affected by this, though hospitality comes to mind as being particularly egregious. "resort fees" you can't get out of where they tell you what you're "getting" for those fees, Airbnb service fees, cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights. Ideally we would take it further…

We need something for pricing dishes differently based on pick-up or delivery. Stop hiding the actual cost of delivery in the prices of the dishes! You shouldn't have to look at two different menus to figure out how much delivery costs.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#89
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, presumably, the websites of major hotel brands work the same for everyone. I would be interested in seeing an example of a “hidden” fee at a hotel. Same with airline prices. Google flight search has always shown me the total price, as have the airline websites themselves.

My experience is the same as yours. However I think these fees are still hidden in the sense that they're not part of the rate that's advertised everywhere, shown in the thumbnail on the hotel website, etc. It would be better if we could just trust that the advertised price would be the actual price.

I agree, the total average per night cost should be displayed in the same price on the initial search results.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#90
post #70

As a foreigner who lived in the USA for a few years, I always thought the US runs in hidden fees. From tipping, to taxes not in the sale price, to insurances not being able to give a price for a procedure, to hotel fees… I could never actually guess how much anything would cost. Either the wording of the law will have a ton of exclusions per industry.

> to taxes not in the sale price This gets complicated and there's good reason. The taxes depend on where you take possession of the goods. If you purchase an item and walk up to the checkout counter, you pay the taxes there. On the other hand, if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%). So, putting the taxes on the lum…

> if you are buying lumber in Kansas City, KS to be delivered in Kanas City, MO - you pay the MO taxes (4.225%) rather than the KS taxes (6.5%)

It gets even better. In some places (e.g. Washington) you pay use tax[0][1] if the use tax would be higher than the sales tax you did pay. So if for example you buy something in Oregon and bring it home to Washington, you pay all of the use tax. If you bought something in a state with a sales tax that is lower than the Washington use tax, you pay the difference. (It isn't immediately clear if you can try to recoup the difference if you buy something in a higher sales tax location than your local use tax rate).

[0] It's the same as your sales tax rate.

[1] https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/use-tax

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