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California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

oag.ca.gov

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Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#31

Post by sneak »

earthnail wrote: post #19
sneak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This obscures the tax burden from the end user, transparently blending it with the price of the goods and the merchant's profit. Consumers should be consciously aware of the split.

Why? The business is built on infrastructure that is paid for with taxes. Tax is included in all end user prices in every European country I’m aware of.

No, the business is built on infrastructure that is paid for with a tiny fraction of taxes.

They are not congruent.

Taxes in Europe are also much higher in general. Perhaps this is a result of obscuring the amounts in the advertised prices—it never raises to the level of conscious consideration of the tax burden at point of purchase.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#32

Post by jawns »

"Californians are fed up with being bombarded by junk fees that, more and more, are making it unaffordable to attend a concert, go to a sporting event, take a vacation, or stay at a hotel."

Oh, believe me, state Senator Nancy Skinner, requiring businesses to disclose these fees up front is not going to make these purchases any more affordable. Companies will either maintain the fees but comply with the disclosure requirement or remove the fees and jack up the base price accordingly. Either way, the goods and services they sell will not magically become cheaper.

What it will do, however, is level the playing field, which is good for competition, and may have some indirect benefits for consumers. So I'm very much in support of requiring up-front pricing. (In fact, it would be lovely to see pricing that's inclusive of all taxes as well.)

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#33

Post by eganist »

wpietri wrote: post #20
eganist wrote: post #5

Tons of industries affected by this, though hospitality comes to mind as being particularly egregious. "resort fees" you can't get out of where they tell you what you're "getting" for those fees, Airbnb service fees, cleaning fees, things that should all be spread across the nightly rate. The feds doing this for airfare was the best thing to happen for consumers shopping for flights. Ideally we would take it further…

I agree with you on almost all of this, but I think the cleaning fee is different. It represents an actual cost for an actual activity. I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off. As an example, right now I'm looking at doing an extended trip, on the order of 2-4 weeks. I just need one…

> I think AirBnb should show initial totals with it included, so you're never surprised by it. But it shouldn't be rolled up into the nightly rate because it really is a one-off.

I disagree with this, and it's easily handled on the backend too. If the cleaning fee is e.g once per trip or once every few days, smear that cost across the cost of the stay for your effective nightly rate.

Frankly, how much it costs to clean a unit shouldn't be a separate calculus when comparing rooms. What ultimately matters is how much I'm out of pocket by the end of the trip, and that's most easily compared by showing the customer the effective nightly rate for the date range being searched. Do the breakdown later, sure, but the effective nightly rate is what should be shown first. Or even just the total for the stay, but no weirdness with fees where those fees can be smeared.

Last tidbit: cleaning fees are another profit vehicle for Airbnb sellers; rarely is the fee the same as what the seller is paying the cleaning service.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#36

Post by darreninthenet »

hiq wrote: post #21
sneak wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This obscures the tax burden from the end user, transparently blending it with the price of the goods and the merchant's profit. Consumers should be consciously aware of the split.

In Europe I still haven't seen a bill without the VAT clearly shown in the final bill. I've also seen shops showing the two prices, one without the VAT, one with. But if only one is shown, it should be the one I will pay.

That's because it's illegal in the EU to display or advertise a price to a consumer (ie not another business) without VAT added.

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#37

Post by themitigating »

Animats wrote: post #18

This over-regulation will interfere with the God-given right of companies to screw over the suckers. Next they'll be coming after payday loans for usury.

I know this is sarcastic and if you didn't post it first I would have.

The inconsistencies some people have when complaining about regulation, California, and Democrats is just irritating

Re: California AG and state senators introduce bill to ban hidden fees

#38

Post by cscurmudgeon »

switz wrote: post #8

Taxes and fees should be mandated for all prices up front. This is how it works in most of the world, there's no good reason it shouldn't work that way here in the US. Someone will come along and point out an edge case, but for the vast majority of retail situations this is doable.

This is a world wide problem. After traveling in Europe, I think it is a global issue and quite bad in Europe.

  Banks across the European Union slap customers with hidden fees, offer financial advice that can turn out to be harmful and provide inadequate information to consumers before they sign up for accounts, according to a report released Tuesday by the European Commission.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB125363506624231121

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187234-i138-k10962835...

https://wise.com/gb/blog/transparency-an-open-letter-from-th...

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