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Lost in the Stock

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Re: Lost in the Stock

#91

Reason number 47,000,000,036 that governments worldwide should require total public disclosure of everything material to how anything sold to the public is made... including not just what ALL of the ingredients are, but their relative quantities, where they're sourced from, every detail of how they're processed, results of any quality or characterization tests, and any and all existing internal documentation of WHY a…

> Trade secrets are purely destructive

Boy, is that a broad statement.

Re: Lost in the Stock

#92
post #79
post #22

If I had to summarize what I thought of this article in one sentence I'd grab this quote: ""Raw material (chicken frames) are cooked in water to specific solids content,” the representative wrote.” The the product, the rep and the company are so disconnected from reality that they can't even call a chicken bone a "chicken bone". They call it a "chicken frame", like some strange chicken nugget defecating robot.

This is going to be the case with any sufficiently scaled business. I feel the same way about how marketing and sales people talk about human beings as an opportunity to qualify for their sales funnel. I'm sure others might feel similarly disgusted how software developers and business people talk about users. I personally find it gross that high spenders are commonly referred to as whales.

> high spenders are commonly referred to as whales

Is this term common outside of the gambling industry? (I personally have no problem with the term's use in that context...)

Re: Lost in the Stock

#93
post #24

Restaurants are in the sweet spot of the economy of scale when it comes to things like sauces and stocks. Households can be a bit too small; making chicken stock is practical, but not effortless. Commercial processed food corporations on the other hand are too big; they can afford to formulate a witch’s brew of Flavoring 31A, Refined Extract Concentrate, and Butylated Hydroxysorbate that 9 out of 10 focus group parti…

I'd argue that restaurants _don't_ have the manpower to do this. Restaurant margins are small as it is, and while I don't have concrete numbers to back this statement up, it feels like designating (or even hiring) someone to upcycle products like chicken bones into stock would be prohibitively expensive, in comparison to just buying prepackaged stock in bulk.

I don’t have concrete numbers either, so take this with a grain of salt (heh), but my experiences working with chefs is that it generally does make economic sense - and when it’s on the margin, most chefs also have a bit of professional pride that will tip the scales. Labour in the restaurant kitchen has an element of the “on-call” dynamic: you have to have enough hands in the kitchen to handle the peak (which generally lasts around 2 hours) but there’s downtime before and after the peak where they do prep work. Stock fits pretty neatly into ”start it before lunch service and finish it after dinner service”, for example.

One place I worked had buffalo wings on their snack menu, a fried chicken option on their burger menu, and chicken breast schnitzel as a main - the head chef’s costing showed the cheapest option was “process whole chickens: wings for the wings, deboned thighs for the burgers, deboned breasts for the schnitzel”. Put a 20 gallon pot instead of a garbage bin next to whoever’s processing the chickens and you get the meat for chicken stock for free. The wings, burgers, and schnitzels didn’t always sell at the same ratios so you’d sometimes have an excess of one of them from yesterday; that goes in the pot as well. The veggies don’t take long and the pot goes on a burner all day. Any chef walking by during lunch or dinner service skims the froth. When dinner service is winding up, pour it through a strainer to store. (Make sure you do this before the dishie is done for the evening so you can make them clean the pot.)

Because it was so integrated into other necessary processes, it was almost free, and they found a lot of uses for it.

Re: Lost in the Stock

#94
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that restaurants _don't_ have the manpower to do this. Restaurant margins are small as it is, and while I don't have concrete numbers to back this statement up, it feels like designating (or even hiring) someone to upcycle products like chicken bones into stock would be prohibitively expensive, in comparison to just buying prepackaged stock in bulk.

I don’t have concrete numbers either, so take this with a grain of salt (heh), but my experiences working with chefs is that it generally does make economic sense - and when it’s on the margin, most chefs also have a bit of professional pride that will tip the scales. Labour in the restaurant kitchen has an element of the “on-call” dynamic: you have to have enough hands in the kitchen to handle the peak (which genera…

Great comment! Made me really nostalgic for my restaurant days. 13 years before I got into tech and I still miss it sometimes whenever I have a great meal and can tell the staff is functioning as a solid unit.

Re: Lost in the Stock

#95
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really not a fan of even long form reporting bringing the author into the story so much. It feels very much an artifact of this generation of reporters who seek celebrity as much as (more than?) telling an informative and neutral story.

I'm sure it has increased over time as people imitate their heroes, but first-person journalism is certainly not at all unique to "this generation"; it was already a big element of New Journalism in the 1960s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Journalism Is it surprising that journalists who grow up reading Hunter Thompson go on to write like Hunter Thompson? I think that's a pretty natural progression, without needi…

Hunter Thompson is who authors like this are trying to be, but his entire brand was shirking the establishment, not clout chasing. This reads like glorified livejournal.

Re: Lost in the Stock

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really not a fan of even long form reporting bringing the author into the story so much. It feels very much an artifact of this generation of reporters who seek celebrity as much as (more than?) telling an informative and neutral story.

Personally I felt more engaged with the story due to its narrative style. A lot of the corporate responses wouldn't have as much impact if they were stated more neutrally like "These 3 stock manufacturers declined to comment", or just providing their nonanswers sequentially. The author's bio also describes him as "chef, author and host of the YouTube cooking show Don’t Panic Pantry", so I think the style is more appr…

I suppose it’s more “expected” given their background but I find it hard to give their research any credibility whatsoever. The informality of the writing style crosses well into the territory of “guys you’ll never guess what just happened to me.” Let me ask you this: how did this story actually benefit from being told from their perspective?

Re: Lost in the Stock

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've normally found that you want to strain and cool it first, as otherwise you end up with a layer of fat in your stock, which tends to not be as nice.

I pull the layer of fat off the top after I cool down the chicken stock and it looks as rich and creamy as butter but with a slight chicken flavor. Some people call it schmaltz. It makes a great coating for a copper pan when cooking scrambled eggs or really anything pan fried.

Schmalz is also beautiful in traditional Jewish dumplings or kneidlach.

Re: Lost in the Stock

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I felt more engaged with the story due to its narrative style. A lot of the corporate responses wouldn't have as much impact if they were stated more neutrally like "These 3 stock manufacturers declined to comment", or just providing their nonanswers sequentially. The author's bio also describes him as "chef, author and host of the YouTube cooking show Don’t Panic Pantry", so I think the style is more appr…

I suppose it’s more “expected” given their background but I find it hard to give their research any credibility whatsoever. The informality of the writing style crosses well into the territory of “guys you’ll never guess what just happened to me.” Let me ask you this: how did this story actually benefit from being told from their perspective?

Here's another article summarizing the OC article [1].

It summarizes the details without any narrative, and concludes with:

> While he was mostly stone-walled, Galuten was able to confirm this from at least one major producer. A General Mills representative told him that the Progresso Chicken Broth recipe starts with a broth concentrate. Then they add in water and additional ingredients to create what you buy in the store. Or, Galuten, says “just buy literally any box of chicken stock because they are probably all the same.”

Frankly I don't find this as interesting as the original post.

I guess it seems more down to earth and less sterile than presenting the facts in a traditional "journalist" third person way.

Maybe I'm biased because I also write in this style for my own blog, but I frequently see this style used by hobbyists exploring technical topics on the front page of HN. E.g. a random post from the front page right now [2]

[1]: https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/whats-in-store-bought-ch...

[2]: https://oneusefulthing.substack.com/p/my-class-required-ai-h...

Re: Lost in the Stock

#99
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you care about the protein is completely unrelated to nutrition, though. Rather, it's because of the flavour and mouth feel.

Can we just say texture? This weird phrase ‘mouth feel’ that ‘foodies’ have started to use is weird and subjectively to me, gross. No professional chef or restauranteur uses the phrase ‘mouth feel’ it’s a weird internet phrase that has caught on a bit. Texture. Taste. Temperature. Mouth feel, tongue feel, heat feel.

It's been 20 years since I've heard "mouth feel", based on some food projects going on in the lab where I did my PhD. I don't think it was a new term then. Maybe it's bled into the world of internet foodies recently, I have no idea, but it's not a new term
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