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What to expect from your framework

johan.hal.se

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Re: What to expect from your framework

#71

Post by cutler »

pydry wrote: post #61
beezlewax wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refreshing to see someone else who hates Tailwind. It's a nightmare.

What do you prefer & why? As a somewhat outsider to CSS I look at tailwind and don't feel excited but I do wonder if thats as good as it gets.

I prefer CSS. We even have browser support for CSS variables now so what else do you need? Tailwind wipes out half of the features of CSS and replaces them with mindless inline repetition and bloat all in the name of convenience. I call it inconvenience and refuse to work on Tailwind projects.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#72

Post by vsareto »

incrudible wrote: post #53
vsareto wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think full stack is more popular than separated roles. They want to hire full stack because you don't really need an expert most of the time, and full stack smashes the two jobs together while paying less. This makes management easier on the surface because you can swing the entire team towards back end or front end work. And of the more capable full stack devs, you can get them to dive into expert topic…

You do not need an expert most of the time, except when you do, at which point you better have one on board. You can mix and match, but keep in mind that context switches are expensive too.

These are all true, however businesses continue to work against their own interests.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#73

Post by brycewray »

cutler wrote: post #70
beezlewax wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refreshing to see someone else who hates Tailwind. It's a nightmare.

The worst Tailwind I've seen is HTML littered with a, a:hover etc. declarations on every hyperlink. OK, you can create a global Tailwind stylesheet in your config but doesn't that defeat Tailwind's purpose?

According to Adam Wathan himself in 2020, yes, it does:

https://twitter.com/adamwathan/status/1226511611592085504

Re: What to expect from your framework

#74

Post by darkhorse13 »

jstummbillig wrote: post #65
Kiro wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I truly hope you are wrong. Non-scoped CSS where you have to come up with names for everything and that doesn't live right next to the markup in the same file as the component is the worst. The whole cascading part is also something I hope I never have to deal with again with conflicting styles being inherited and overridden all over the place. Just let me isolate everything and let me freely copy a component fi…

What do you do to keep your inter component styling in sync?

In my experience, this is usually solved with more TS/JS abstractions, something like global theming. Often they are hacky and poorly implemented, and always they are leaky.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#75

Post by incrudible »

vsareto wrote: post #72
incrudible wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need an expert most of the time, except when you do, at which point you better have one on board. You can mix and match, but keep in mind that context switches are expensive too.

These are all true, however businesses continue to work against their own interests.

That is debatable. In the grand scheme of things, politics included, it probably does not really matter. Otherwise, companies not employing this pattern should be at a competitive advantage.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#76

Post by di4na »

ozim wrote: post #45
arrowsmith wrote: post #15

This article is great, and it reminds me of a rant I've been wanting to make for a long time: why the hell does everyone these days insist on building every web app as an SPA? I started my career in Rails. I'm sick of Rails these days as I've worked with it for long enough to become intimately familiar with its flaws; these days I'd pick Phoenix over Rails any day of the week. But still, I'd rather spend a million ye…

How do you implement editable list of items where requirements are that: - editing/creating new has to be in a popup - people don't want full page reload because they lose context (and have "feel" it beeing slow even if it is not) - edit-table is not a solution because amount of settings will fit popup - some things like item name in a list has to be updated in the list after saving in popip which requires two way da…

Phoenix liveview.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#77

Post by cutler »

brycewray wrote: post #73
cutler wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst Tailwind I've seen is HTML littered with a, a:hover etc. declarations on every hyperlink. OK, you can create a global Tailwind stylesheet in your config but doesn't that defeat Tailwind's purpose?

According to Adam Wathan himself in 2020, yes, it does: https://twitter.com/adamwathan/status/1226511611592085504

Oh, and that's discounting responsive breakpoints. So if you have 3 of those that can be 3 lots of a, a:hover etc. for every hyperlink. You couldn't make this up.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#78

Post by Zababa »

cutler wrote: post #71
pydry wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you prefer & why? As a somewhat outsider to CSS I look at tailwind and don't feel excited but I do wonder if thats as good as it gets.

I prefer CSS. We even have browser support for CSS variables now so what else do you need? Tailwind wipes out half of the features of CSS and replaces them with mindless inline repetition and bloat all in the name of convenience. I call it inconvenience and refuse to work on Tailwind projects.

> We even have browser support for CSS variables now so what else do you need?

Not writing CSS in a different file and have it applied to all my page would be a start. Creating a class for each different component and then writing CSS for that component is not really great. I like the Svelte way where you have your components that have HTML, CSS and JS, and some global CSS too.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#79

Post by Zababa »

arrowsmith wrote: post #15

This article is great, and it reminds me of a rant I've been wanting to make for a long time: why the hell does everyone these days insist on building every web app as an SPA? I started my career in Rails. I'm sick of Rails these days as I've worked with it for long enough to become intimately familiar with its flaws; these days I'd pick Phoenix over Rails any day of the week. But still, I'd rather spend a million ye…

As someone that's new in the industry: nobody taught any other way. All during college it was Node/React/Mongo, or Node/Angular/Mongo. If I didn't spent some time on HN and learning about the rest of the tech I wouldn't know any better too.

I'll add to that that it's a bit intimidating to jump into Rails/Django/Spring/whatever today, they seem to have been getting more complex with time, and now when learning material is scattered between different versions. Also, having no occasion to do any of them professionally, it's a bit hard to know which one to pick, and take the time to learn them when I'm paid to know TypeScript and its last features.

Re: What to expect from your framework

#80

Post by ozim »

christophilus wrote: post #57
ozim wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you implement editable list of items where requirements are that: - editing/creating new has to be in a popup - people don't want full page reload because they lose context (and have "feel" it beeing slow even if it is not) - edit-table is not a solution because amount of settings will fit popup - some things like item name in a list has to be updated in the list after saving in popip which requires two way da…

I do this in Preact and it is a breeze. But I also did it in an old Rails app with a bit of jQuery and partials. The modal loaded its markup from an endpoint. Saving was an http post that returned html which I injected into the DOM using some basic sorting / filtering logic. It was… ok, but there was duplicated logic on the front and back ends. I think if I had to abandon SPAs again, I’d probably have the “save” endp…

With Angular it is not even a breeze it is something you have out of the box no questions asked. Save endpoint returns data only for single item on the list and it is updated in place in the list with two-way-binding on return of request.
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