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Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

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141–150 of 334 posts

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#141
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you see it as immoral or stealing? These companies spend millions on these movies, countless people work on them and depend on them for their wages (not just the actors, but the support crew, the caterers, the make up artists, the lighting crew, editing, post production, script writers, casting agents, location scouts, etc etc). They then charge people a small price for the right to view their work (either…

Because basically, I don't think that the trouble they go to creates an obligation in me in regard of my network, my hard drive, my screen.

I'd really like to hear your explanation for why you have no obligation. Just because pirating isn't theft in the technical sense, it doesn't mean you're excempt from paying for someone else's work if you use it for their intended purposes. (as in downloading a song and listening to it)

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#143
post #15

If copyright were just to protect the investment of a company in development of an artist or product I'd broadly agree with this argument. Where copyright seems objectionable to me, is where the initial cost of development was non-existent or large profits have been made for years. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You#Royalty_a... For some copyright to last 95 years seems more like profitee…

Playing "happy birthday to you" in public might be a legit act of civil disobedience . Pirating last weeks blockbuster isn't.

That's an opinion. Stating opinion as fact is a worthless contribution, in fact a detriment, to healthy discussion.

I wouldn't argue that there's moral high ground here, I'd simply put it this way:

  Anyone who thinks there is a better way to keep people from pirating music than to make the legal means of acquisition simple, affordable, and to not play games with release dates, is a fucking idiot.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#144
post #134
post #83

This article is interesting to read and think about from a theoretical perspective. Practically, though, it is completely and utterly useless. Fact 1: Pirating is possible and fairly easy across the board. Fact 2: Some content creators try to limit access to maintain "exclusivity" or to keep margins high. These guys get destroyed by piracy. Fact 3: Other services strive to make it as easy as possible to get their pro…

World of Goo launched on Steam and still saw 90% piracy. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/my-software-is-bein...

This is the kind of thing that boggles my mind. World of Goo was a huge success! How the piracy rate fits into the relative success or failure of World of Goo is not at all clear. I don't see how anyone can believe that there's a possible reality where World of Goo would be just as successful as it was with a 0% piracy rate, and where information exchange is free. You can't have both! If World of Goo had made a pittance and its developers had died in poverty, maybe there would have been an argument to make there. But as it is, that piracy figure is just a number that has no tangible connection to the number of possible sales in a world where piracy is either morally abhorrent to everyone, or technically impossible. And that world is something for dystopian science fiction to explore, not one that I would ever wish to experience.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#145
post #54
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea what you are talking about, I'm guessing this is because you have never created anything worthwhile on which your livelihood depended. I'm sure you'd be quick to whine if your employer (assuming you are old enough to work) could decide whether or not you should be paid for your work after you had done it. I hope you congratulate the next person to steal from you with a cheery "well done, that's my mo…

You have no idea what you are talking about, I'm guessing this is because you are too old to have grown up with tape trading, VHS copies of films and pirate cable. I have a contract with my employer, he is bound by that agreement to pay me. If he decides he doesn't want to, I stop working for him. If I write a book, no one is under contract to purchase and read it. I'd be happy if someone did, but I'd be foolish to a…

As an employee, you have no basis for understanding the perceived loss that piracy incurs- you are paid 100% what you agreed upon for your creative efforts. Someone else is taking the risk and losing the profit. If you went to get your paycheck and found out that it was 40% lower than what you thought, you might feel some of that self-righteous anger that businesses are espousing.

More realistically the worst you will feel is a denied promotion, or lost a job because your company can't realize it's investment in you.

Unless you are directly culpable for the creation and distribution of a product and lose money on it because people won't honor your effort, you don't have a basis for passing judgment based on your personal experience (in other words, you're no expert :) ).

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#146
Someone needs to be paid to be able to continue producing the things you enjoy. Otherwise they stop getting made. So before I get any further, I think artists, developers, etc. need to be compensated for their work. It should be illegal to copy someone else's digital goods and sell them for a profit (ie. copying a cd whether you paid for the original or not and reselling it). That doesn't mean I think copyright holders need to be compensated in the same way they have in the past. We're in the midst of trying to figure out how exactly to do that. Louis CK's movie, Radiohead's In Rainbows, Kickstarter... they're all examples of people trying to figure out how this all works moving forward. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. Eventually, we'll figure out a system that does.

We're going through a cultural shift in the way we obtain information. We forget that buying and individually owning books, movies, music, etc. is a relatively new thing and wasn't always the norm. But because there are entire industries built around these things, organizations like the RIAA and the MPAA have an obvious interest in keeping things they way they are.

People should be allowed to share as they want without repercussion. Some people will pay for things, others won't and some can't even if they wanted to. That's never going to change no matter how many laws are passed trying to stop it. People shouldn't be denied access to materials just because they didn't or can't pay for them.

Libraries are essentially what the internet has become except on a much smaller scale. One person / institution / organization buys all the books, cds, movies, etc. and lends them to others for free. Some will argue the differences is there are a limited number of copies that can be lent out at any one time. And while that's true, it's irrelevant. Just because that's the way things have been doesn't mean that's the way they need to be. As more libraries expand their digital content, the lines between our views on libraries, piracy and the sharing of information will become increasingly blurred.

We're living in a time when people have access to information like never before. People are being exposed to music, books and films they never would have before. We're learning things we never would have been able to 10 years ago. Walls and barriers to learning and education are being torn down. Those are all good things that we should be celebrating, not trying to destroy.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#147
post #134
post #83

This article is interesting to read and think about from a theoretical perspective. Practically, though, it is completely and utterly useless. Fact 1: Pirating is possible and fairly easy across the board. Fact 2: Some content creators try to limit access to maintain "exclusivity" or to keep margins high. These guys get destroyed by piracy. Fact 3: Other services strive to make it as easy as possible to get their pro…

World of Goo launched on Steam and still saw 90% piracy. http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/my-software-is-bein...

But were they able to make a viable living from selling their game? 90% piracy does not equate to 90% loss of revenue. Not every pirate is a potential customer. Far from it. Were sales of the game higher because of the publicity due to the piracy? I don't know for sure and neither does anyone else. An instance of piracy is not necessarily something bad. Classical piracy is. But not digital 'piracy' necessarily. And by extension, high amounts of digital 'piracy' is not necessarily bad. Just some food for thought.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#148
post #111
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you but I'm voting down. There's no need to use violent rape analogies when talking about someone requiring you to activate over the phone. Turn it down a notch please.

> when talking about someone requiring you to activate over the phone. What about software that phones home and require some physical gizmo like a CD or dongle to use, after you've already spent a nice sum of money to acquire it? You're simply treated not like an amiable customer, but a thief, while actual thieves simply use it.

> What about software that phones home and require some physical gizmo like a CD or dongle to use, after you've already spent a nice sum of money to acquire it?

I still don't think this warrants comparison to rape.

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#149

The author has a fundamental misunderstanding of what laws mean, and how they change. In England, it is illegal to eat mince pies on Christmas day? Why? Because centuries ago England was governed by a despotic, fundamentalist Christian regime that did not approve of Christmas celebrations. Should I then refrain from eating the mince pie? No. I and millions of my fellow countrymen eat mince pies, and most are complete…

Those who say "Only those with something to hide will have something to fear" are those that fail to recognize we're all criminals. We've all broken some sort of law at some point in time, and most break dozens of laws every day in the course of their life. There are so many things that are technically illegal. There are too many laws that aren't up to date with what people expect to be able to reasonably do.

[deleted]

Re: Piracy - You can't have your cake and eat it

#150
Civil disobedience, the most puissant form of protest, is breaking a law you believe to be unjust, and suffering the consequences if necessary.

If you break a law you believe to be unjust and expect to suffer no consequences, that's silly, but not immoral.

If you break a law you believe is just, then you're kinda evil.

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