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Civilization 7 Is in Development

polygon.com

211–220 of 224 posts

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#211
post #132

Let’s hope they learn from their mistakes considering the Metacritic scores they’ve gotten for the past three iterations: Civ 4: 94/8.2 Civ 5: 90/8.0 Civ 6: 88/7.0

I think this might be a function of their DLC model, where they launch a barebones game and flesh it out over two expansions. Civ V and VI vanilla are so much more boring and incomplete without their expansions

Civ4 had two expansions too, though it perhaps didn't release in as such sorry state as Civ5 ?

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#212

Slightly out of topic, does anyone know any good mods for Beyond Earth to completely recreate Alpha Centauri? I tried Beyond Earth, really didn't like it but I absolutely loved Alpha Centauri

Slightly out of topic too-

(AFAIK, no, but it has been years since I last checked)

-but you might be interested in Shadow Empire :

https://www.wargamer.com/shadow-empire/review

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#213

Slightly out of topic, does anyone know any good mods for Beyond Earth to completely recreate Alpha Centauri? I tried Beyond Earth, really didn't like it but I absolutely loved Alpha Centauri

Slightly out of topic too- (AFAIK, no, but it has been years since I last checked) -but you might be interested in Shadow Empire : https://www.wargamer.com/shadow-empire/review

Thanks for the recommendation, yes it does seem right up my alley :) I'll give it a go

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#214
post #189

Civ V had such beautiful presentation, with art deco visual themes, wonders presented as beautiful paintings and wonderful music. I’d like to see that again. It would be great to see some of the recent advances in AI text generation enrich the game. It would make the games more varied.

Yea, I really enjoyed the art style of Civ V. They put a lot of thought and effort into it, and I really love Art Deco. I would love seeing more games with that level of focus on specific styles.

You love Art Deco ?

Hmm, then you might enjoy this !

Surprisingly good soundtrack : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bqCz5wd_T0

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/magic-story/episode-1-home...

https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Streets_of_New_Capenna#Magic_Sto...

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of modding, that's surely an utopia isn't it? Anywhere outside the Factorio utopia that this can happen?

To make it easier for those not in the know : https://mods.factorio.com/

What amazes me is partly how easy it is for mods to work together. Really some software engineering done right there too, in the groundwork of their mod system.

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#216
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I really enjoyed the art style of Civ V. They put a lot of thought and effort into it, and I really love Art Deco. I would love seeing more games with that level of focus on specific styles.

You love Art Deco ? Hmm, then you might enjoy this ! Surprisingly good soundtrack : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bqCz5wd_T0 https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/magic-story/episode-1-home... https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Streets_of_New_Capenna#Magic_Sto...

I’ve no particular interest in MTG, but I do like that architecture.

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#217
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. The AI was essentially "cheating" to play inhuman micro, its macro was apparently just as bad as typically expected.

I remember (from HN) some genetic algorithm explorations of optimal research/build orders that discovered novel and better combinations then-unknown to the playerbase.

That might well be the case, but it didn't translate to realtime play AFAIK.

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#218
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose what I mean is, in the context of a computer game where you’re playing a computer, I don’t think it makes sense to talk about cheating. The way the game works is the rules. There may be different rules for the human and AI players, but the expectation that they are the same is an assumption ported over from board games. It’s not really a thing in native computer games. For example nobody expects the compute…

My point is that it's kinda weird to claim that we had AI that was so good at opportunistically playing "like a human" by e.g. picking on poorly defended cities that human players hated it, but then admit that its proficiency is at least in part because it knows the whole map - that, by definition, is not "like a human".

The means is not human like, but the behaviour might well be. A human might conduct a search with scout units and intuit city locations from observed units and such to identify and target cities. Doing that in software might be infeasible, so you give the model full information and maybe program in a delay based on the distance to enemy cities before targeting them. The implementation is different but the behaviour ends up being hard for human players to distinguish.

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#219
post #87
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely better than the previous ones .. the previous games feel unplayable now. I can't imagine civ5 (4 cities only to be viable and stupid-as-heck civic options) or earlier (no hexes, stacking units?). But... at the same time, Civ6 feels super phoned-in and underwhelming most of the time. (The AI dialog, world congress, road-building-via-trade routes, and various other stupid things are so annoying that I c…

> I can't imagine civ5 (4 cities only to be viable) The "4 cities" may be easiest and most obvious strategy, but there's plenty of people who beat the game on Deity via Warmongering or spamming cities all over the map as well. The game has plenty of depth.

oops, I meant to write "I can't imagine going back to civ5".

I should have probably clarified anyway. There are other viable strategies that people have found, but I just find it very annoying how much the game shoehorns you into the 4-city strategy through the very-unfun and just... dumb?... happiness mechanic. Imo Civilization-building should be about finding optimal exponential growth based on what you have to work with in your particular game, not about optimizing against arbitrary breakpoints in the rules and/or exploiting degenerate and counterintuitive strategies (such as the mysteriously viable warrior spam).

Re: Civilization 7 Is in Development

#220
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even here, comments are pointing out how bad Civ's AI is. The solution isn't more realistic AI. It's better deterministic "AI" that allows you to learn how it plays and devise different strategies for how to deal with it. Unfortunately, AI is largely an afterthought for developers and players don't really understand what they want either.

Probably because an AI competent at playing the game is ridiculously hard in a game development context. Meanwhile an AI better at roleplaying now seems to be a low investment for a decent reward situation ?

That just leads to everybody complaining about how bad the AI is in Civilization and Stellaris. Sure, these companies don't care because they have financial incentives not to care, but we're seeing the effects of studios not caring about AI right now. Not sure why you're defending them.
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