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Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#841

Post by tekla »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #636
slothtrop wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not calling people crazy Wait until they realize that every single fucking insult in existence is equally "able-ist", by definition, or otherwise offensive in some way. Is the expectation that we slowly disallow insults in culture? No, it's going to be arbitrary whitelisting. Stupid (there I go being ableist). A change like this doesn't work as intended without fundamentally changing the narrative. If a character w…

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> Most of us stopped using “retard” a long time ago for example

This never happened

Its actually hilarious to me that the words you list out could all mostly be incredibly offensive to certain types of people, but you think its ok since its not "ableist".

Really points out how stupid policing literal insults is

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#842

Post by tekla »

lozenge wrote: post #711
bitcurious wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a work of fiction is changed to not imply women are meant to stay at home and men are meant to go to work, doesn't that show that, to those offended, on some level those implications are core to what makes that work that work? The problem is that Dahl’s work isn’t an essay, or a treatise. It’s whimsical. It’s art! The words chosen, were chosen because they were the words that worked. Say these two extracts out l…

OK, but how does an Indian child feel reading that, who has their name mispronounced every day (sometimes carelessly, sometimes with profuse apologies, sometimes deliberately), and knowing that Pondicherry could never be the name of an Indian prince?

They deal with it knowing that the world is a complex place.

My name was romanized in a incorrect way a hundred years ago and technically the entire English speaking world mispronounces it. I deal with it by not being a goddamn baby about it. And yes, I figured this out when I was 10.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#843

Post by stuckinhell »

jemmyw wrote: post #24
stuckinhell wrote: post #3

Censoring old children's books. Yikes. This is frightening in more ways than one. Besides the obvious censorship, and rewriting the past being a bad thing. I can't wait to see what they do to "Brave New World", "Fahrenheit 451" and "1984". It'll be ironic and sad if they burn the old unedited Roald Dahl books. But also have we reached cultural stagnation, that old media still out competes new ones by such orders of m…

> But also have we reached cultural stagnation, that old media still out competes new ones by such orders of magnitude Where is the next Dahl? Why is there no modern Beatrix Potter? Kids still love those stories and style of writing, which is less trite than most of the modern children's books. It does feel like stagnation, with lots of content being churned out but none of it with great staying power. Instead the ol…

So I asked my kids about this. It seems that old media itself is dying out when compared to new media for their generations.

But the strangest part is, they will watch youtube videos of people reading books or playing videogames. I'm still not sure what to think about this.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#844

Post by JohnFen »

furyofantares wrote: post #132

The changes all look fine to me, and many of them probably make me more likely to continue reading Dahl books to my kid. I mean, none of the old language would stop me in my tracks but it adds up. There's plenty of options and I'm always picking the ones that I find the best, in many cases having a bunch of outdated language will cause me to pick something else next time.

> probably make me more likely to continue reading Dahl books to my kid.

But you aren't really reading Dahl. You're reading a derivative work based on Dahl's writing. Which is fine, but understand what it is.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#845

Post by tekla »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #248
Ekaros wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't fat be normal descriptor of well fat people. Should we next ban thin? Or short and tall? Those also can also be derogatory.

You seem to have missed the point. So allow me to reiterate: fat is a derogatory term which lends itself to the idea that food fats are bad. Food fats aren't bad. So call them chubby or overweight or whatever you want. Using the word fat, when fat refers to a food product, gives dumb people the impression that fat is a bad thing. Do you get this concept? "Thin" isnt a food group. Short and tall, also not food groups.

Being fat is bad. Fat shaming should be a thing

*Formerly extremely obese person.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#846

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

wrp wrote: post #703
morbia wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another gay man here. To me it seems like we have this paradoxical situation where the media want to simultaneously present inclusivity and diversity, but don't dare present any of the real diversity for fear of stereotyping. The end result is some token LGBTQ+ characters who are heteronormative, which is disingenuous. If it is a choice between no gay character and some gay character who is essentially 'straight acti…

> ...some gay character who is essentially 'straight acting'... I often see (edit: readers) mention that a story has gay/straight characters, even when (to me) there is no opening in the plot for characters to express their romantic inclinations. What exactly are you looking at when you perceive a character as $orientation?

"Bewitched" is a classic tale of same-sex marriage, men in the closet, and uneasy gay-straight alliances.

"E.T.: The Extraterrestrial" is a classic coming-of-age story of a gay man in the modern world.

Dracula by Bram Stoker is the quintessential gay liberation epic.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#847

Post by comice »

throwaway049 wrote: post #734
PostOnce wrote: post #654

They left in wonky nose, crooked mouth, and stick out teeth, but took out the reference to fat? That's wild. The fat is arguably the only fixable thing, or at least the cheapest. You can't "just stop eating so much" and fix a wonky nose or stick out teeth. Calories aren't magic and hard to fathom. Normalizing being overweight is going to kill a lot of people early.

It's really quite difficult to lose weight and keep it off. Certainly cheaper than dentistry, but still difficult. I read a book called 'Fat Chance' that goes into the science of why it's difficult.

only 1% of people can lose more than 5kg and keep it off.

if almost 100% of people can't do something, describing it as "not hard to fathom" completely misrepresents the issue.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#848

Post by exolymph »

Applejinx wrote: post #789
unixgoddess wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder when will they start editing Harry Potter, what with the Dursleys being caricature fatsos = villains.

That was my thought. Reading about all the changes had me looking askance at Roald Dahl: it's like, sheesh, somebody's far more edgy than they really needed to be. But that's who that guy was. That's what came out when he set out to be edgy. Removing it, you might as well write a different book. Misrepresenting who the guy is in order to sugar-coat him seems not the right approach, to me. So if you do that, you shoul…

> you should DEFINITELY edit Harry Potter to get the terfliness out of it

Have you actually read Harry Potter? What are you referring to within the books?

Rowling was a progressive darling for years until she expressed disallowed sentiments outside of her fiction writing.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#849

Post by erenyeager »

double2helix wrote: post #606

I'm a gay man and I think we are going to far with this PC nonsense. I had a hard time growing up in the 90s knowing I was different and being tormented by my peers, so I'm happy to see gay "normalized" in current pop culture more because I think it teaches the younger generation to accept themselves and others. However I feel that it's going to far, for example I started reading a novel the other day but gave up a t…

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Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#850

Post by bentcorner »

chaostheory wrote: post #774
bentcorner wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I replace language that suggests that women are supposed to stay at home and men are supposed to go to work I totally agree - my kids had Berenstain Bear's books (as random gifts and such) and I would avoid reading them because in particular the way they portrayed Papa Bear as a bumbling fool grated on my nerves. He's like a Homer Simpson without the heart. I'm certain mothers also don't appreciate the way Mama Bea…

Why not explain the historical context of these books instead? (That’s I what do with my children.) My children appreciate the transparency and extra discussion. That leads to a better longer term outcome for society than with the ease and convenience that censorship provides. History’s mistakes tend to repeat when society forgets them. We can’t rely on educational institutions doing our job for us since the same tre…

Fair enough, and I applaud your approach, but IMO there's a time and place, and bedtime wasn't one of those times or places I wanted to get into these kinds of discussions.
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