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Statement on President Carter’s Health

cartercenter.org

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Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#171

Post by calgarymicro »

ponzimechanic wrote: post #119
wkat4242 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but this is something that could have gone both ways. It could easily have led to an enlightened movement as well. At he time the Mudjahedeen were very much in the "good guys" book.

No. Zbigniew Brzezinski said in a French magazine interview that they purposely baited the Soviets into invading Afghanistan to give them their own Vietnam. In the late 90s, Zbigniew said that it was worth Al Qaeda’s rise by saying something like it was better to end the Soviet Union than to have a few pissed off Muslim terrorists. Of course, Zbigniew’s partner David Rockefeller was accused of propping up Carter as t…

Worth noting that Brzezinski repeatedly denied making that quote, and the author admitted to fabricating parts of the article.

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#172

Post by hulitu »

monetus wrote: post #143
flandish wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a sure bet to assume anything Kissinger did was treason, murderous, or a war crime. Pissing on his grave, when nature takes its (slow) course, will be a goal for plenty, I am sure. In short: fuck that guy.

A podcast for those without context - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236...

National Geographic's Kissinger is also a great one.

And i think that Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove was a good parody of him.

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#173

Post by bsenftner »

starkd wrote: post #146
bsenftner wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think there's much evidence either that he fought big money or was driven out of office by them. Although "big money" is different people and different corporations now, they've pretty much always, in last 70+ years, acted in concert with the Republican Party. And that is exactly who drove him out of office, with activities such as illegally negotiating with Iran during the election to withhold the hostages…

>> Big Business, as we know it today, didn't exist during the Carter's Administration That's a good one. I think Big business has been in full control of both parties for most of the 20th century. It's just two sides of the same coin.

During the Carter Administration, the majority of business within the United States was family owned businesses. The Reagan Administration and 8 years changed all that to the majority of businesses being owned by corporate conglomerates.

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#174

Post by ponzimechanic »

calgarymicro wrote: post #171
ponzimechanic wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Zbigniew Brzezinski said in a French magazine interview that they purposely baited the Soviets into invading Afghanistan to give them their own Vietnam. In the late 90s, Zbigniew said that it was worth Al Qaeda’s rise by saying something like it was better to end the Soviet Union than to have a few pissed off Muslim terrorists. Of course, Zbigniew’s partner David Rockefeller was accused of propping up Carter as t…

Worth noting that Brzezinski repeatedly denied making that quote, and the author admitted to fabricating parts of the article.

Interesting, I didn’t know that. But worth pointing out that he seemingly referenced it when he said a few angry terrorists was worth the price of helping bankrupt the Soviet Union.

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#175

Post by starkd »

bsenftner wrote: post #173
starkd wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Big Business, as we know it today, didn't exist during the Carter's Administration That's a good one. I think Big business has been in full control of both parties for most of the 20th century. It's just two sides of the same coin.

During the Carter Administration, the majority of business within the United States was family owned businesses. The Reagan Administration and 8 years changed all that to the majority of businesses being owned by corporate conglomerates.

Globalization was already well on its way before the Reagan administration. Nixon's visit to China did a lot to change the trade landscape. Even in 1979, it seemed like everything was "made in China". It just became cheaper to do things overseas.

There's a famous site that pins it the date at 1971:

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#176

Post by starkd »

blululu wrote: post #157
starkd wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? It was literally the main news item for the second half of his term. Every evening Walter Cronkite began his broadcast with "day xxx of the hostage crisis". The administration was consumed by it. It also didn't help that Carter ordered a military rescue option that ended in disaster. The Iranians shot down our helicopter.

To clarify: it was the hostages that upset people - not the revolution. The revolution led to the hostages but it wasn't a big news item on its own. Walter Cronkite focused on day four hundred and something of the hostage crisis. The revolution itself did not get nearly as much attention. None of the cold war era revolutions that went for or against American foreign interests were that big of issues in American Elect…

Good point. Although the Iran revolution was slightly more in the news with the drama about the shah of Iran. He was ill with cancer. Carter would not allow him into US for treatment, so he had to go to Mexico. I think he eventually got into US though, because Mexico could not care for him. The shah of Iran had quite a following among many. He sort of the royal family of the middle east.

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#177

Post by starkd »

mikeyouse wrote: post #162
starkd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he appointed Volcker towards the end of his term. Inflation had been a growing problem throughout all of the 70s. Read about Nixon's diastrous attempt at price controls. Ford had his WIP ("Whip Inflation Now") campaign. Inflation was not fixed with just the hike in rates. It took well over a decade for it to come down to near zero rates. The hike in the fed fund rates sent the economy into stagflation. The economy wa…

Reagan's tax cuts were passed in late 1986 and didn't fully come into effect until 1988.. here's the chart of Real GDP from before Carter to early Bush I: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=10d3t The tax cuts were incidental to the better economy in the 1980s, and couldn't have caused it since they weren't in effect until well after things had recovered.

That is flat out wrong. There were two bills. The first was in 1981, where the major adjustments were made. However, revisions were made in 1986.

Most of a president's agenda is enacted in the first year of their adminstration.

https://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_t...

"Soon after taking office in 1981, Reagan signed into law one of the largest tax cuts in the postwar period"

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#178

Post by starkd »

sammalloy wrote: post #142
starkd wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are very much in the minority. There were many jokes about Carter at the time. Many comedians did impressions of him. He was not known for his great oratory. He was often referred to as a technocrat.

I was around at the time and I’ve read the literature since that era. I don’t recall such criticism and I’ve never read anything criticizing his oratory skills.

Interesting. Your memory obviously is very different, but I remember Dan Akroyd did impressions of him on SNL. A very monotone delivery was very characteristic, only to be outdone by Mondale.

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#179

Post by mikeyouse »

calgarymicro wrote: post #170
woodruffw wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economically, most national Democrats are about as conservative as Carter, if not further right. Carter is in many ways the progenitor of the neoliberal wing of the DNC; he brought back Progressive Era views that had previously been sidelined by the New Deal. Socially, Carter is some probably slightly left of the DNC’s national position.

This doesn't sound right to me. The modern Democratic party isn't very fond of mass deregulation, balanced budget drives, or quantitative tightening, which is pretty much Carter's economic legacy. And while Carter's very socially left wing now , I doubt he supported, say, gay marriage, when he was president.

The difference is modern democrats are living in a world after 40 years of deregulation so it’s much less obvious whether further mass deregulation would be beneficial, Carter’s balanced budget emphasis was borne out of the mistaken idea that inflation was being caused by Federal deficits, and there’s no exceptional Left resistance to JPow’s rate hikes and tightening.

His other policies were largely in line with center-left policies of today, mediating conflicts, reducing dependency on foreign oil, renewables investments, expansion of federal health care support, massive expansion of parks and conservation land, established Superfund, supporting marijuana decriminalization. On gay rights, he was the first president to meet with any gay marriage proponents and he worked (with Reagan) to defeat the proposed California law that would ban gay people from teaching positions (history doesn’t repeat but it often rhymes).

Re: Statement on President Carter’s Health

#180

Post by syzarian »

refurb wrote: post #169
syzarian wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Reagan’s “effectiveness” includes murdering and torturing human rights advocates who opposed his unlawful actions in Central America. The U.S. and world would be better without such “effectiveness”.

Pretty sure you can do what i said without supporting death squads. Theyre really not related at all.

We were talking about Reagan and he did use death squads.
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