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"BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

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Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#71

Post by throw0101c »

markonen wrote: post #49
techsupporter wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My home router is a MikroTik CRS309 ... advertises my home network blocks over BGP How do you fit two full BGP tables into 512MB of RAM? I've looked into MikroTik boxes before and maybe they're doing something I'm not understanding. On the routers I have manage, two IPv4 feeds take up about 1.1GB and three IPv6 adds another 450MB.

I’m just getting the default route from both upstream routers. They’re not diverse in terms of the internet routes they have, this is just for HA.

> I’m just getting the default route from both upstream routers.

If they offer the option, instead of a "default-only" feed from each ISP, you may wish to see if they have "default-plus-our-customers" feed: if Service A is also a customer of ISP #1, then why bother sending the packets to ISP #2 in the first place?

* https://support.allstream.com/knowledge-base/bgp-request-inf...

In general, at some point you'll hit a Tier 1 network, after which it won't matter, but until that point getting the connectivity to other customers of the ISPs could be useful. The other reachability destination to pay attention to would be of IXPs, where CDNs often connect to.

* https://bgp.he.net/

* https://bgpview.io/

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#73

Post by markonen »

throw0101c wrote: post #71
markonen wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just getting the default route from both upstream routers. They’re not diverse in terms of the internet routes they have, this is just for HA.

> I’m just getting the default route from both upstream routers. If they offer the option, instead of a "default-only" feed from each ISP, you may wish to see if they have "default-plus-our-customers" feed: if Service A is also a customer of ISP #1, then why bother sending the packets to ISP #2 in the first place? * https://support.allstream.com/knowledge-base/bgp-request-inf... In general, at some point you'll hit a…

Both of the upstream routers are mine, there’s no difference to the routes they have available. (They’re connected both to Tier 1 transit as well as the major local IXP)

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#74

Post by throwaway894345 »

Habgdnv wrote: post #64

I've been running BGP at home for the last 10 years, and in my area, most ISPs prefer to use Dedicated Internet Access (DIA) for BGP sessions. Fortunately, I live in a place where there are a few smaller ISPs with around 2000-3000 customers that are willing to run BGP with me as a home user. They're impressed that I have BGP, ASN, and IPs as a home user, and I think it's pretty cool too. Additionally, running one mor…

I have a super rudimentary understanding of what BGP is (it allows you to advertise addresses something something), but I don't really understand why it's useful and thus I'm finding TFA to be a little inaccessible. Could you provide some context about what you're using BGP for (what is your use case; what does it enable for you; etc) such that it might fill in some gaps for me?

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#75

Post by HyperSane »

skissane wrote: post #10
c3534l wrote: post #2

But why?

If I had more money than sense, I’d do the same thing. If I was filthy rich (which I’m not and probably never will be), I’d build a data centre in my mansion and buy a brand new IBM mainframe and stick it in there. Because I can. For the same reason other rich people build some huge garage with dozens of cars in it.

I would buy one of every high end enterprise storage array to play with. My former life as a VMWare admin made me appreciate storage.

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#76

Post by notyourday »

Habgdnv wrote: post #64

I've been running BGP at home for the last 10 years, and in my area, most ISPs prefer to use Dedicated Internet Access (DIA) for BGP sessions. Fortunately, I live in a place where there are a few smaller ISPs with around 2000-3000 customers that are willing to run BGP with me as a home user. They're impressed that I have BGP, ASN, and IPs as a home user, and I think it's pretty cool too. Additionally, running one mor…

> This practice of requiring /24 subnets may have made sense in the past to preserve router memory, but with today's technology, it's nonsensical and only serves to artificially deplete available IPv4 addresses.

You should be surprised about how much of the internet still runs on gear from late 1990s

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#77

Post by linsomniac »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #74
Habgdnv wrote: post #64

I've been running BGP at home for the last 10 years, and in my area, most ISPs prefer to use Dedicated Internet Access (DIA) for BGP sessions. Fortunately, I live in a place where there are a few smaller ISPs with around 2000-3000 customers that are willing to run BGP with me as a home user. They're impressed that I have BGP, ASN, and IPs as a home user, and I think it's pretty cool too. Additionally, running one mor…

I have a super rudimentary understanding of what BGP is (it allows you to advertise addresses something something), but I don't really understand why it's useful and thus I'm finding TFA to be a little inaccessible. Could you provide some context about what you're using BGP for (what is your use case; what does it enable for you; etc) such that it might fill in some gaps for me?

BGP is what "the Internet" uses to say what IP addresses can be reached over the various network links that connect different providers. If you had links to two different providers, you would talk BGP to them and say "You can reach this set of IP addresses via me." They then propagate that announcement on to other providers that they connect to.

This is done via ASNs (Autonomous Systems Numbers), like 32150 (my old ASN). Each hop along the way gets their ASN tacked on. It's like a flood-fill to all the BGP routers in the world.

When you "traceroute", you see IP hops along the way, but the ISPs routers choose links based on this list of autonomous paths (among other things). Basically, a AS-level traceroute is built into the BGP routing information. At it's most basic, a path is selected based on the shortest AS path (traceroute, but at the organization level rather than IP level); the fewest number of networks the traffic has to traverse.

If a link goes down (either because of a network failing, or because of administrative reasons), traffic will eventually switch over to another way of reaching the destination. You can also do things like pad the AS path with multiple copies of your AS to cause traffic to switch to another link more frequently, as a kind of primitive load balancing.

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#78

Post by traceroute66 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #74
Habgdnv wrote: post #64

I've been running BGP at home for the last 10 years, and in my area, most ISPs prefer to use Dedicated Internet Access (DIA) for BGP sessions. Fortunately, I live in a place where there are a few smaller ISPs with around 2000-3000 customers that are willing to run BGP with me as a home user. They're impressed that I have BGP, ASN, and IPs as a home user, and I think it's pretty cool too. Additionally, running one mor…

I have a super rudimentary understanding of what BGP is (it allows you to advertise addresses something something), but I don't really understand why it's useful and thus I'm finding TFA to be a little inaccessible. Could you provide some context about what you're using BGP for (what is your use case; what does it enable for you; etc) such that it might fill in some gaps for me?

> I have a super rudimentary understanding of what BGP is (it allows you to advertise addresses something something)

The TL;DR:

Yes, BGP allows you to advertise addresses.

Ergo, it is allows you to build resilience, i.e. you can connect to multiple independent ISPs and advertise the same addresses. Hence traffic will always be able to reach you even if one ISP goes FUBAR.

By the same token, it makes pretty much zero sense to have BGP on a home connection (or, in technical speak, a "single-homed connection"). Since really BGP is a zero-sum game on single-homed connections (no real benefit, much added complexity).

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#79

Post by ctime »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #74
Habgdnv wrote: post #64

I've been running BGP at home for the last 10 years, and in my area, most ISPs prefer to use Dedicated Internet Access (DIA) for BGP sessions. Fortunately, I live in a place where there are a few smaller ISPs with around 2000-3000 customers that are willing to run BGP with me as a home user. They're impressed that I have BGP, ASN, and IPs as a home user, and I think it's pretty cool too. Additionally, running one mor…

I have a super rudimentary understanding of what BGP is (it allows you to advertise addresses something something), but I don't really understand why it's useful and thus I'm finding TFA to be a little inaccessible. Could you provide some context about what you're using BGP for (what is your use case; what does it enable for you; etc) such that it might fill in some gaps for me?

The internet is a decentralized collection of autonomous systems (AS) and the primary benefit of this setup isn’t exactly realized afaict, which is multiple paths via different carriers. Your BGP AS is advertised via N paths, so your IP networks are thus reachable via multiple paths. Systems will take the shortest/best path adding to redundancy and throughput. Compared that to “business” service without routing options, when your “dedicated” connection drops, your IP addresses are no longer reachable from the greater internet.

Re: "BGP at home": getting a DIA circuit installed at home

#80

Post by bombcar »

dboreham wrote: post #20
remram wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they wanted 2 separate network paths but they still end up with only 1 where they can use BGP. Maybe they can still use their residential connection as failover, with a VPN to a VPS where they can use BGP?

They all likey traverse the same physical path and would all be taken out by the same gravel truck hitting a pole. The two connection thing was I think more about defense against random retail connectivity flaps (someone decides to upgrade a router's firmware and just takes the town offline, meanwhile nobody answers support calls, that sort of thing).

Yeah true multihoming is expensive and involves things like hiring people to actually inspect the physical lines and Make sure they don’t run down the same street at some point (and be subject to the same backhoe of fiber death)
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