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What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

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Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#81

Post by noting0002 »

conrod_ wrote: post #37
ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the "Universe in a nutshell" version overview of neuroscience, I'll plug my own book Journey of the Mind: How Thinking Emerged from Chaos (more on that below) Anil Seth's Being You is a recent one that does a good job of summarizing the most popular theories in consciousness. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53036979-being-you The Routledge Handbook of Consciousness ( https://www.amazon.com/Routledge-Handbook-…

Thanks for the reply! I have to say, I am quite giddy. When I posted this question, I wasn't expecting to get a reply from an author and researcher on this very topic. I am a software engineer by profession, but this is a topic that has been on the back of my mind for many years. Even when I read popsci books about the universe and the big bang and so on, i felt spiritually unsatisfied because they often do not addre…

[dead]

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#82

Post by Eupraxias »

mahathu wrote: post #76
didericis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on what exactly you mean by “the nature of consciousness”, it’s fundamentally impossible to answer. The fact that we think we can observe and comprehend a mechanism doing the observation does not preclude things we cannot see. You might be able to pan a cctv camera and get some insight about the camera itself if you find a reflection, but you can’t pan it over to the linux driver. It is not a given that all…

Yes. It's like trying to describe a house that you can't leave.

Does anyone know a technical term for this? Like describing the Milky Way from within it...

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#83

Post by noting0002 »

Eupraxias wrote: post #82
mahathu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It's like trying to describe a house that you can't leave.

Does anyone know a technical term for this? Like describing the Milky Way from within it...

Perhaps a model for explaining the model that explains the model and so on?, that is a recursive procedure to obtain a fixed point for the function f(model) = f(explain(model))? So that f = model0 where model0 is the fixed point of the function f. In order to use explain you should read first Kant's account of Reason (1). Hince knowledge should be expanded within the dialectics framework so that no concept of God or World emerge from it.

(1) https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-reason/#LimiReas

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#84

Post by colonCapitalDee »

inphovore wrote: post #78
alexvoda wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you've said beeing a hypothesis. We have yet to see proof of any of it.

Geeze, that’s not how truth works actually (not confined to the horizon of ignorance), though I accept your skepticism. Your downvotes are your HYPOCRISY! I have a whole long list of assertions you will fight me on for the love of your ignorance. In this moment I cannot fully invest in exhaustive debate. I will prattle on a little more in an unstructured form for the sake of intrigue. There are several things going,…

What did I just read? Is this satire?

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#85

Post by naasking »

ethanwillis wrote: post #45
naasking wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lookup table with compression. Intelligence is a form of compression.

The vast majority of information cannot be compressed and the proof of this is trivial by a simple counting argument. In any case, it is still just a lookup table. Compression, unless lossy, doesn't change the meaning of the information in this lookup table. It just makes access more indirect. Hutter might think that intelligence is a form of compression, but I think that's just wishful thinking. It might be my ego s…

> The vast majority of information cannot be compressed and the proof of this is trivial by a simple counting argument

It doesn't have to be lossless compression. Intelligence is also about being discerning about the information that's relevant, although that's basically the same point.

> But it's not my ego speaking to say that there's no hard proof to say unequivocally that intelligence is equivalent to compression.

Actually I think it's kind of trivial to see that intelligence is a necessarily form of compression. Abstractions, concepts, theories, these are all lossy descriptions that discards irrelevant details and capture only relevant details to make problem solving via deduction, induction or abduction tractable. And yet, using those concepts, theories, abstractions you can reproduce/predict observations with very high fidelity. That's compression.

Do you have a counterexample of something that we consider intelligence that doesn't fit this model? I suppose it depends what specifically you mean by "equivalent".

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#86

Post by drowsspa »

alexvoda wrote: post #63
inphovore wrote: post #60

Consciousness is a quantum phenomenon. The mathematical structure is geometric in some way. The quantum domain acts as a sieve. Constructive and distinctive interference perturbs the quantum substrate, which is the existential universe itself. Consciousness is thus the universe peering back into itself, and living systems are the biotechnology which animate this phenomena. The unique properties of this are: Our “comp…

All you've said beeing a hypothesis. We have yet to see proof of any of it.

I think that calling this a hypothesis is quite charitable.

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#87

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

messe wrote: post #73
Madmallard wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consciousness is just your brain working. Everyone that tries to mystify or expand on it further is making shit up. The glasgow coma scale has existed for a long time in medicine. You literally lose parts of consciousness before the whole as various physiologic markers deteriorate. This isn’t even pessimistic. It’s just not an interesting explanation and people love to be led by novel ideas regardless of their basis…

I think you’re confusing consciousness (qualia, the subjective experience of being you) with awareness.

To be fair, it's hard to find anyone who doesn't.

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#88

Post by kajaktum »

conrod_ wrote: post #37
ChaitanyaSai wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the "Universe in a nutshell" version overview of neuroscience, I'll plug my own book Journey of the Mind: How Thinking Emerged from Chaos (more on that below) Anil Seth's Being You is a recent one that does a good job of summarizing the most popular theories in consciousness. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53036979-being-you The Routledge Handbook of Consciousness ( https://www.amazon.com/Routledge-Handbook-…

Thanks for the reply! I have to say, I am quite giddy. When I posted this question, I wasn't expecting to get a reply from an author and researcher on this very topic. I am a software engineer by profession, but this is a topic that has been on the back of my mind for many years. Even when I read popsci books about the universe and the big bang and so on, i felt spiritually unsatisfied because they often do not addre…

I am sorry to disappoint but I think consciousness is the one thing that we will never be able to solve physically. It is perhaps the only thing that is true about that universe, that I somehow exists. Everything else is simply derived from that and might as well be an illusion (perhaps a very consistent and steady illusion).

> It really deserves more attention and awareness among geeks and the general public.

There's 0 interest in consciousness because it's so hard to pay attention and realize that it exists. We go about our days for weeks, months, years and even decades without even noticing that consciousness is a thing.

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#89

Post by goatlover »

epgui wrote: post #57
Nevermark wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That view seems pessimistic without any strong argument, other than critiquing people for not yet understanding something we all agree we don’t understand yet. > Consciousness" is not a thing. It's a collection of things, […] A collection of things is a thing. > The truth is consciousness is an emergent phenomenon, […] I don’t think that is controversial at all. We have unraveled the workings of many emergent phenome…

It's only a thing if you can define it, but there is no agreed upon definition of what collection of things comprise consciousness. We have all the pieces, and we know we have all the pieces (note: this doesn't mean we don't have a lot more to learn, both can be true). There is little controversy over how it all roughly works together. The only real controversy is semantics: what do we mean when we say "consciousness…

> but there is no agreed upon definition of what collection of things comprise consciousness

Colors, sounds, tastes, smells, feels, emotions that makeup perception, imagination, inner dialog or visualization, dreams, hallucinations, illusions.

Or qualia if you want to reference the philosophy of mind literature, where the debate and various positions are well defined and extensively argued.

Re: What is a mathematical structure of conscious experience?

#90

Post by goatlover »

colonCapitalDee wrote: post #84
inphovore wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geeze, that’s not how truth works actually (not confined to the horizon of ignorance), though I accept your skepticism. Your downvotes are your HYPOCRISY! I have a whole long list of assertions you will fight me on for the love of your ignorance. In this moment I cannot fully invest in exhaustive debate. I will prattle on a little more in an unstructured form for the sake of intrigue. There are several things going,…

What did I just read? Is this satire?

Bing chat being fed into chatGPT prompted by the thread's title?
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