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Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#761

Post by mdp2021 »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #754

I think at this point we have to accept all types of people, even bigots, racists, homophobes and the rest. That's not to say agree with them, but accept they exist and treat their words as they are ... wholly disagreeable. Leave the problematic things in books, have conversations with kids about why it is problematic and why it is goods things have changed. Erasure of past issues erases in some ways the fights won.

:)

> wholly disagreeable

"Dude" (apologies), your chosen username is "Sir-sins-a-lot"!

> Leave

The sensible way is to have the normal publication of X and /maybe/ some modified versions, for "special uses", with clear warnings that it is not the original.

And to educate people to be smart. (Which by the way does not fit with an idea that confuses "formation" with "molding".)

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#762

Post by muyuu »

alerter wrote: post #617

People will complain about political correctness, but this is just the market and intellectual property law in action. In my experience, the ‘left’ doesn’t want the public sphere to become coddled and inoffensive. Advertisers and media companies do. It’s risk aversion. Ideally, our shared cultural legacy would not be subject to the whims of corporate executives.

it's doubtful that advertisers and media would be blamed for Roald Dahl being simply a person of his era, if anything they are taking the risky position by interfering and actively censoring classic work - they risk selling nearly f*ck-all as people just stick to older editions and seek authenticity more and more

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#763

Post by dijit »

tomp wrote: post #645
ec109685 wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an early chapter in Charlie and the Glass Elevator that feels like it was written by a racist 11 year old, with the idiot president making fun of every ethnicity in the most banal way possible. I skipped it when reading the story to my children.

Surely it’s not racist to make fun of every ethnicity?

I can think of times it can be.

“All white people are slave owners”

“All black people love watermelon”

“All jews love money”

“All indians love curry”

etc.

Even if you’re not picking on a single group, you can still be perpetuating untrue (and even potentially harmful) stereotypes.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#764

Post by tokinonagare »

Very lengthy and interesting article about politically correct rewriting of fiction works until "said a spokesperson for the Roald Dahl Story Company". If one is to denounce something, the first step would be not to indulge in the same exact wrongdoing.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#765

Post by ominous »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #727
ominous wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their thread started with: > Sounds like a great book. A great book because "every character was some form of LGBT or interracial or something". If you think it was a conversation to start with, you are simply wrong. It's closer to the delusions of someone who hypnotized themselves into their current worldview. It amuses me to engage in this way. I am very calm.

> delusions of someone who hypnotized themselves into their current worldview. I can understand what the other person is getting at. I literally just said I would like the book and my friends are actually like that, and you have to say I’m deluded? You’re not having this conversation in good faith. We are in fact having a conversation but you’ve imagined it’s something else and you’ve admitted from the outset you’re…

Commenting to correct just this:

> that I should be ashamed for wanting to hang out with trans people

I do not think that. Rather, I used it to point out how you placed all cis in one category, and refer to them as all the same.

> All you’ve done is concisely demonstrate why someone like me would want to hang out with people that get me

"people that get me" does not necessarily mean "non-cis". But you happily used it like that. Using "being trans" as proxy for being safe will get to talking with trans people who believe in gender roles, and will enforce a gender-roles status quo. That you likely do not like.

> And to be honest I suspect the reason is that I’ve said I’m trans. Otherwise I can’t imagine why you decided I should be immediately dismissed.

Had I dismissed you, I would not have engaged. It's not because you said you are trans. It's because you seem to act as if identity drives knowledge (positioning), and as if whites and cis were to be seen as purely elements of the oppressor class that when coming together are only doing so to exclude the oppressed and perpetuate the status quo.

I said nothing re: you. Rather, your worldview. You feel attacked. I understand.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#766

Post by muyuu »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #524
mensetmanusman wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your decision may be contributing to the crisis of identity of women who do want to raise a family though, and who have been crushed by a culture who pushes college and helping capital owners as the meaning to life.

My understanding is that this crisis of identity is actually on men, because men aren’t now the sole breadwinners and also don’t have girlboss feminism to bolster them. Men attain less education and are more prone to crime, homelessness, and addiction. The traditional role of a man is an emotionally closed-off breadwinner, and this doesn’t work in a world where women can rival men in breadwinning but also don’t have…

it really is for both, and it's not two independent crises; they're two mutually interdependent crises that reinforce each other

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#767

Post by yreg »

zirgs wrote: post #747
nicbou wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to a lot of art museums when travelling. If you judged the world by the thousands of paintings in those museums, you could assume that people of color simply didn't exist back then, and that poor people showed up at some point during the 17th century. I could understand why people might want art to portray a broader world that includes them in it, especially when introducing their children to that world. It…

There weren't that many people of colour in Europe back then. Eastern Europe is still 99% white.

Reminds me of the outrage about the game Kingdom Come Deliverance for not having any black characters.

The game is set in 1403 in Bohemia (Czech Republic). Yes, there were some black people in Europe in that time already. But I'd take a bet that if you went to the villages the game is set in today you wouldn't find a single black person either.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#768

Post by DonHopkins »

williamvds wrote: post #728
ominous wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In case you don't realize it, your behavior in this thread is patronizing (telling people how they should behave), degrading (not directly talking to the commenter), and from a clear place of closed-mindedness (writing as if teaching truths to an AI, not discussing). Your lack of empathy makes me assume you haven't been through similar experiences as the commenter you're "replying", either because you're not visibly…

[flagged]

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#769

Post by aflag »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #674
undersuit wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>potato-head You'll need to adjust your language as the language has changed. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-can-count-to-potato https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/acprjo/how_did_p... Frankly any insult that attacks intelligence in any way is going to be ableist. Attack the merits or lack thereof of the argument.

Its true that potato head might be borderline. I suppose I prefer to make the effort and adjust my choices when someone points out my error, than make no effort and ignore feedback I am getting from others. Potato head was new to me and seemed like a good idea, and I did use it against myself. I generally will not insult anyone else's intelligence, but I do suppose that calling myself a potato head might perpetuate t…

Doesn't fool fall in the same category?

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#770

Post by mdp2021 »

Nevermark wrote: post #623
zmgsabst wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are the James Bond stories different than the anti-Russian sentiments we see circulating today? I think we should read such historical texts precisely so we can gain an appreciation for how those ideas happen — and can examine ourselves doing the same thing.

In the books, the very distasteful view of Russians is aimed at particular people and organizations within Russia. Not the general repressed public. That is worth remembering in the heat of war. Also, the books recognize that the motives of those powerful government (and government sponsored) organizations are implacable. They continuously worked in every way possible to undermine the power of other countries, vassal…

Yes in general, but it is more complex than that.

There exists a "tzarism" component, there exist others. And an umbrella is theoretically possible where those components are solved - but I have not seen such umbrella developed.

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