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Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#451

Post by ComputerGuru »

PKop wrote: post #348
faeriechangling wrote: post #209

Of every change the ones to Augustus Gloop not being called "enormously fat" and instead being called "enormous" are the most jarring as his story is a moral parable about the dangers of gluttony. Even if you think such moral parables are wrong, the phrasing change isn't simply just aesthetic, it's fundamentally changing the story's narrative.

You're making a general argument against revisionism but you seem to miss the point that the specific critique of gluttony / being fat / "fat shaming" is an aspect of the current morality that is imposing itself in many corners of culture. It is forbidden to say being fat is unhealthy, undesirable or to pathologize it at all.

> It is forbidden to say being fat is unhealthy, undesirable or to pathologize it at all.

Does that seem sensible?

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#452

Post by defrost »

anonreeeeplor wrote: post #428
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #128

It turns out that Dahl was a real antisemite, to me that is more of an issue: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/dec/06/roald-dahl-fam...

Roald Dahl personally killed Nazis as a fighter pilot. Go look it up.

He had four or five confirmed kills with no indication that the German pilots of the Junkers Ju 88s over Greece were Nazis.

He also killed at least one Vichy French Air Force pilot .. again there's no indication whether that pilot (or pilots) were Nazis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl#Fighter_pilot

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#453

Post by antihipocrat »

mbostleman wrote: post #275

This makes me happy to know that I still have all the original editions, accumulated in my childhood, on my shelf.

Fuel for the firemen of the future? For me, these examples of censorship seem more like the path toward Bradbury's vision than Orwell's.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#454

Post by ecshafer »

twoodfin wrote: post #153
bitwize wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joseph Conrad and Rudyard Kipling wrote favorably about colonialism; they were replaced with more agreeable authors. Use of gendered language is marginalizing to nonbinary people. It's easy to figure out why these changes are being made in particular, once you take a position of empathy.

Joseph Conrad wrote favorably of colonialism?! Have you read Heart of Darkness ?

Thank God. Saying Conrad wrote favorably about Colonialism is so completely wrong and crazy some would say. Heart of Darkness was one of the most anti-colonial books of the 19th century.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#455

Post by xupybd »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #451
PKop wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making a general argument against revisionism but you seem to miss the point that the specific critique of gluttony / being fat / "fat shaming" is an aspect of the current morality that is imposing itself in many corners of culture. It is forbidden to say being fat is unhealthy, undesirable or to pathologize it at all.

> It is forbidden to say being fat is unhealthy, undesirable or to pathologize it at all. Does that seem sensible?

As someone who is fat and unhealthy I don't think it is. You're not rejecting me to tell me I need to lose some weight, you're suggesting you care about my well being.

I don't understand the modern idea that you must celebrate every part of a person to love them.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#456

Post by NDizzle »

swatcoder wrote: post #436
NDizzle wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give me an example of whatever community it is that you grew up in? Me? Rural northern Arkansas. Dry county. Unaffected by these edited/abridged version of media. In other words, Han shot first in my day, sonny.

That’s more personal than I like to share here, but vaguely I was in the rural Northeast while a rising tide of born-again Baptist churches absorbed Catholic and mainline Protestant communities. Maybe it was more obvious to me because of the flux. In any case, you must at least remember Wal-mart’s role in demanding “clean” versions of rap and hip hop content (and punk) as those genres went mainstream. That was happen…

Interesting, but I think misplaced. That all started in the 80s, Tipper Gore and the PMRC.

“Adjusted for television” or for play over the radio were broadcast standards that still exist.

Hell, I’m somewhat thankful for them. We had an issue at one of the youth sports games last fall. Music played between innings. The quote that came out of that one was, “I thought E meant ‘everyone’.

Yes, I know stuff is adjusted for broadcast, “find a stranger in the alps” still cracks me up. That’s not the same as not being able to describe tractors as black, or fat people as fat.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#457

Post by boppo1 »

oska wrote: post #311
boppo1 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Authoritarian Progressivism' is a better term going forward I think. It better specifies the set of beliefs and the formality is harder to dismiss.

Cheers. I put the word in quotes to indicate my use was not necessarily an endorsement of the term. And even though it is the most commonly used label and probably the one that's going to stick, I do like your alternative. Yours is probably a better one for discussion of the movement in more academic or formal contexts.

Thanks! And I agree, 'woke' isn't going anywhere.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#458

Post by tptacek »

SaltyGoodness wrote: post #447
tptacek wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again: there's no advocacy (at least nothing evident to me) in that comment. It's a descriptive comment, not a normative one.

> It's easy to figure out why these changes are being made in particular, once you take a position of empathy. Come on guy, it's not that hard to see. People have been pointing it out to you for hours now.

I feel like there are several people on this thread who don't really understand what "empathy" means.

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#459

Post by zmgsabst »

bla3 wrote: post #431
tptacek wrote: post #100

I'd be interested in hearing the most credible/reputable sources speaking out in favor of these changes. I've exclusively seen commentators dunking on this (rightfully so), across the political spectrum. To be clear: I'm wondering if we can find specific people speaking up for this, not an analysis of whose side of the culture war is most culpable for it.

I'm neither credible nor reputable, but I'm in favor of a weak version of this. When reading older books to my young child, I replace language that suggests that women are supposed to stay at home and men are supposed to go to work. One day soon he'll be able to read, and at that point I'll wish that books that were a product of their time would have been updated for the current time, so that he could just read the b…

Do you think the best way to address slavery is to erase all the records and pretend it didn’t happen?

Re: Hundreds of changes made to latest editions of Roald Dahl's books

#460

Post by webmaven »

faeriechangling wrote: post #160

This is why supporting things like zlibrary is important. One of the arguments I heard in favour of copyright was to give a financial incentive to preserve and maintain old cultural works. Lol guess that theory is out the window. This entire debacle is only possible because of the publishers.

It will be interesting when these works as originally written and published enter the public domain, and the altered versions remain in copyright.

I predict that there will be an audience for reading the originals, and a market for brand new updated versions that are more skillfully done (perhaps by a bylined author), but that these specific (and rather ham-handed) publisher-edited versions will be quickly forgotten.

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