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Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

wsj.com

81–90 of 118 posts

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#81

paywalled please delete

Are paywalls ok?

It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds.

In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. More here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html>

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? Tech progress in the areas the article talked about slowed down like 70 years ago.

I read up until the paywall

Same. I don’t know why people keep engaging with wsj content.

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#83
As far as I'm concerned, the author of this article has not made a strong enough argument to draw such a bold conclusion.

They point to patent research, showing that innovation in areas outside of computers and electronics has slowed down. Then admits "of course" computers and electronics aren't included in this. But computers and electronics dominate our world. If you exclude them and say "tech progress is slowing down!", you're saying almost nothing at all, because you've excluded the thing that accounts for our currently-alleged rapid rate of technological progress.

He does attempt to cover this point by asserting that increases in processor performance are slowing down. This is enough for him to draw the conclusion of: "for computers [...] the period of rapid exponential growth will soon become history." This is a massive logical leap. Processor performance isn't the only component of technological progress in the wide field of computers and electronics, and that's especially obvious in the current time where rapid progress is occurring in ML algorithms.

I think this subject is a worthy point of inquiry, but it seems to me that the article is simply taking facts and drawing unwarranted conclusions from them.

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#84
post #63

A favorite of mine from an earlier era: "That the automobile has practically reached the limit of its development is suggested by the fact that during the past year no improvements of a radical nature have been introduced." - Scientific American, Jan 2, 1909

Until the recent fundamental change of making cars electric instead of run on gas, have there really been many other "improvements of a radical nature" since 1909? If you go back and you look at cars from that period they not only look like modern cars, they are made by the same companies. They definitely are less powerful, and yet they have similar miles-per-gallon efficiencies as many larger cars from recent years.

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#85
> Exponential growth has not taken place in the fundamental economic activities on which modern civilization depends for its survival — agriculture, energy production, transportation and large engineering projects.

This is inevitable in a society where progress is predicated on return on investment.

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be anything really. Better medication design, discovery and modelling of new compounds, disease discovery, better understanding of our environment, etc.

So why aren't we already aware of what these applications are since ML has already been well-funded and hyped for about a decade? Basically what is the inflection point? Obviously this is subjective, but underwhelmed would be a compliment for how I feel about ChatGPT. I've been hearing about these near-term breakthroughs for nearly a decade, even working in the industry. And yet, the real-world progress is nothing co…

[deleted]

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#88
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the real world applications you’re referring to?

* better pictures from your phone's cameras * auto-captions for youtube videos, you can now search through them. when they started they were quite good and have only improved since. * ChatGPT we haven't seen widely deployed yet but already now a lot of people use products built on GPT's technology, so an even better version will benefit all of them and widen the circle of users.

[deleted]

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#89
In studying the potential and limits of technology, there's stunningly little discussion of what technology is and how it achieves its ends.

John Stuart Mill distinguishes science from the "arts" (the term for "technology" in the 19th century) as "science most conveniently follows the classification of causes, while arts must necessarily be classified according to the classification of the effects", from Essays on some unsettled Questions of Political Economy.[1]

There's some discussion of the nature of technology, W. Brian Arthur, The Nature of Technology , and Kevin Kelley's What Technology Wants, as well as several titles by Steven Johnson. The contribution of philosophy to the question is generally unsatisfying, though there are Jaques Ellul, Lewis Mumford, Michel Foucault, and Martin Heidegger.[2] None of these are themselves technologists, which whilst providing some stand-off distance also manifests much ignorance.

I've found useful to consider what the specific mechanisms of technology are, and have come up with a nine-part breakdown, which I refer to as the ontology of technological mechanisms:

- Fuels & energy sources: Primary means for effecting change in a system. Biomass, fossil fuels, nuclear energy, environmental fluxes (solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, etc.)

- Materials: Stuff we build and process with, both structural and feedstocks. Stone, wood, fibre, vitrified materials, metals, chemicals, fluids, etc.

- Power transmission and transformation: Conversions between types or forms of power, from simple mechanisms to electronics and quantum effects.

- Process knowledge: Specific "how to" knowledge, "technology" in the vernacular.

- Causal knowledge: Understanding of properties and mechanisms, "science" in the vernacular.

- Networks: Links and nodes, physical or virtual. Transportation, communications, knowledge itself.

- Systems: Process with feedback.

- Information: Sensing, parsing, storage & retrieval, processing, and transmission.

- Hygiene effects: Dealing with unintended or undesired consequences.

The classification has seemed reasonably stable and useful to me for some years now.

From this a few aspects become clearer:

1. Each modality has its capabilities and limitations. E.g., materials vary in properties and abundance.

2. Some modalities scale linearly (e.g., the effects of additional energy are generally directly proportional to inputs), some exponentially (networks and systems), others seem to be emergent and impose non-evident but long-term costs (hygiene).

3. Virtually all exponential change seems to involve or rely highly upon network effects. These are only a limited set of modalities.

4. Tremendous advances in raw capabilities in specific areas (e.g., information) seem to provide at best limited real-world outcomes. E.g., multi-millionfold increases in computational capabilities have resulted in extension of useful weather forecasting only by a factor of days. Efficiencies of automobile and aircraft transport improve with increased informational capacities, but only to inherent limitations defined by physics (drag coefficients, Carnot / Rankine efficiency).

We can also look at specific areas of technological progress ... or stagnation ... and see where these fall within the structure. Keep in mind that a given real-world technology, say, computer chips, typically covers a set of these factors, say, networks, systems, materials, and process knowledge, in the case of semiconductors.

What all of this suggests to me is that even with considerable future potential in certain areas, we're likely to see limitations imposed by other elements of the ontology.

________________________________

Notes:

1. Previously discussed with a longer quotation here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23000911>. Source: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12004/12004-h/12004-h.htm#FNa...>

2. See generally: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/technology/>

Re: Tech Progress Is Slowing Down

#90

As far as I'm concerned, the author of this article has not made a strong enough argument to draw such a bold conclusion. They point to patent research, showing that innovation in areas outside of computers and electronics has slowed down. Then admits "of course" computers and electronics aren't included in this. But computers and electronics dominate our world. If you exclude them and say "tech progress is slowing d…

"The author of this article", Vaclav Smil, has made the argument at rather greater length than this one brief excerpt:

https://vaclavsmil.com/category/books/>

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