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Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

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Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#121
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's fair to say men hold a disproportionate amount of power No it's not. It's neither accurate nor fair. A disproportionate amount of power is held by people who happen to be men. That does not mean men as a group hold a disproportionate amount of power. People always confuse these things. Treat people as individuals, not as instances of groups.

Sorry but no, it is completely accurate to say not only do men hold a disproportionate amount of power, but that they obtained that power by virtue of being men. It’s institutional misogyny, it’s morally bankrupt, and it needs to change.

Essentially every tech firm is run by a man, yet, they were not awarded those jobs because they are men. They tended to get them by founding those companies successfully, or being very early employees who did major successful initiatives. The US President has always been a man, but that's because the men always win the votes, not because the competition is tipped in their favor.

On the other hand, in some countries there are now laws forcing women into corporate boards. You have to have women there even if they did nothing to deserve it.

> It’s institutional misogyny, it’s morally bankrupt, and it needs to change

This is so far from reality you need to do some grounding exercises. Institutional misogyny would look like written down, formal and openly acknowledged mechanisms that systematically block women from certain opportunities. Can you write down a list of such things? Probably not because in the west, no such mechanisms exist. The same is not true in reverse, where there are actually many such mechanisms that specifically grant women those opportunities by banning men from competing. Board seats, all-women selection lists in politics, recruiters told to only search for women, jobs that are earmarked only for women, laws that grant women child custody by default, the US VP being selected because it had to be a black woman and so on.

People like Andrew Tate get audiences because it's completely accurate to say our society is institutionally misandrist. To claim the opposite is to simply replace reality with ideology, which is always dangerous.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#122
We are living in the matriarchy now, and it will only increase in the future.

Women now get 60% of all degrees, and I've read somewhere that projections are that they will get 70-75% in the next 10-15 years.

The only reason men are still most of the Fortune 500 CEOs, president of the USA, and other positions of power is because of legacy reasons - men who graduated 30 or 40 years ago and were in the workforce for a long time.

With fewer men graduating from university, now and even more in the future, it's logical that women will take over all forms of power in society in the medium-term future - starting now but snowballing faster and faster until in 25 years, it will be all females ruling most of society. Sure there still will be powerful men, but I'm talking about society as a whole.

Title IX started in 1972 to make an equal academic playing field for women. At that time, in 1972, the diparity between men and women was men had 12% more of university graduates. Now women are 20% more and rising.

We are living in the matriarchy but it's like that "he who must not be named" kind of thing. If you say that we live in a matriarchy, it is instant banishment from the kingdom in the form of instantly being labeled as a misogynist or incel, just for saying we live in the matriarchy.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#123
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but no, it is completely accurate to say not only do men hold a disproportionate amount of power, but that they obtained that power by virtue of being men. It’s institutional misogyny, it’s morally bankrupt, and it needs to change.

Essentially every tech firm is run by a man, yet, they were not awarded those jobs because they are men. They tended to get them by founding those companies successfully, or being very early employees who did major successful initiatives. The US President has always been a man, but that's because the men always win the votes, not because the competition is tipped in their favor. On the other hand, in some countries t…

Straight, white men have the privilege of being taken seriously, of being heard. The further you drift from that "ideal" mold, the less seriously you are taken. The roles that men fill in society are filled because people don't attach negative connotations to what those people do or say, and therefore leadership roles are massively disproportionately filled by men.

There are so many more qualified women in this world that could do as good of a job, if not better, than the men who are leading, but those women are never given a chance because of their gender.

People like Andrew Tate get an audience because hatred is easy to fall for, and misogyny is sadly all to common in western society. Our society not only is not misandrist, it's actively pro-men in so many ways, on so many levels, that the mere notion that the playing field should be leveled gets thought of as "misandrist".

If you're a healthy straight white man and you're struggling in western society, it's got nothing to do with other people; it's firmly a you problem. Andrew Tate gives those people a way to pretend it isn't their fault, but that's all it is, pretend.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#124
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially every tech firm is run by a man, yet, they were not awarded those jobs because they are men. They tended to get them by founding those companies successfully, or being very early employees who did major successful initiatives. The US President has always been a man, but that's because the men always win the votes, not because the competition is tipped in their favor. On the other hand, in some countries t…

Straight, white men have the privilege of being taken seriously, of being heard. The further you drift from that "ideal" mold, the less seriously you are taken. The roles that men fill in society are filled because people don't attach negative connotations to what those people do or say, and therefore leadership roles are massively disproportionately filled by men. There are so many more qualified women in this world…

[flagged]

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as a society we simply ignore the gendered nature of these atrocities. For some reason we can shrug off another human being's suffering when it's a son or a brother, far more easily than when it's a sister or daughter. The roots are biological, men are the dispensable gender, given that a single man can potentially impregnate several women. On the other hand if a female is lost, her potential progeny is also lo…

In my experience, it's women who have lost sons or husbands to suicide or gang violence who are among the most likely to offer and advocate for support for at-risk men.

Sons, I understand based on my observation. The husband thing is a new data point for me.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as a society we simply ignore the gendered nature of these atrocities. For some reason we can shrug off another human being's suffering when it's a son or a brother, far more easily than when it's a sister or daughter. The roots are biological, men are the dispensable gender, given that a single man can potentially impregnate several women. On the other hand if a female is lost, her potential progeny is also lo…

The roots may be biological, but we rise above our biology every day. That is the essence of the liberal project - we protect the weak instead of leave them behind. Democracy, a system of justice, these things are unnatural. They exist to prevent us from degenerating into a Hobbesian state of nature where might makes right. The inability of our society to protect victims and the weak when they happen to be male is on…

Good luck with you idealism, given that over 95% of 'society' does not care either for themselves or others, let alone the weak.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I never had a son, I would have never understood what boys go through. It's so fundamentally different than girls, it's hard to believe. Watching a part of you grow up, learn, smile at you, its just something beyond what any words can describe. You want to protect them. You watch them closely. You slowly realize just how different your son is from yourself and your daughter. I still remember the first day he got a…

I understand. However, the emphasis of my question is on your current viewpoint of the feminist policies at the workplace. How has having a son changed that? Did it change it at all? When I was younger and older male mentor told me this. He told me that many people don't know this but while society paints a picture of men being bumbling fools trying to crack the code that is this mysterious creature called a woman, t…

I think you are asking me a very emotionally charged and complex question, that I can't really answer over the internet.

But I'm going to try . . .

I stand by my original answer, having a son changed my perspective on boys/men for nearly everything. We are different. My view point on feminist policies changed because of my son, but also from my experiences in the real world outside of the university bubble. I was probably the most feminist in university, but softened heavily after my brother's suicide. Then working for a long time now, it's clear that 95% of women and men are just workers subject to whims of the rich in america.

As to your specific points about men and women, I have no idea. I suspect the normal curve and percentages in relation to ones culture matter a lot there. But I do think there is bit of overthinking there. When a woman says she wants a sensitive man, the hidden part is she wants a sensitive and handsome man. I think this is the same for both women and men, but I could be wrong. When men say they want a "gamer"/"nerd"/"etc, I assume they also mean "x" and cute.

Also I suspect the vast majority people women and men do not understand themselves. I work with very very smart people, but its extremely common to see people not understand their own emotional reactions, traumas and desires. I agree most standard human behavior is extremely selfish. If you understand this, its also clear why "asymmetrical" responses like what wpietri means are extraordinary dangerous to society.

IMO modern society's biggest failure is thinking we are better than our predecessors. Modern society lacks understanding or refuses to admit our animal natures and worst behaviors need strong cultural safeguards to be reigned in. I don't think we will ever be able to force people to be enlightened and you can't force empathy. Sometimes I really fear I'm stuck in hell.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe but his family isn't. I'm trying my best to protect him, which is why it was so shocking when I checked his internet usage.

Protect him from what, exactly?

People who aren't looking out for his best interests or use him as fodder for their various agendas.

Some people on hackernews think I need to educate my son on being guilty for being born male. Some men like Andrew Tate would just grift off of him. Some women on twitch would try to leech money from him.

I want to protect him from all the things that would destroy him.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#129
post #98
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should use our rationality both to make sense of the world and to shape the world so it is more reasonable. Recommending that groups take revenge on one another for past behavior and wrapping it in some Orwellian term like "Asymmetric Behavior" is neither rational nor reasonable. It's immoral.

Thank goodness I have never advocated for revenge, then.

> Ending inequality requires asymmetrical behavior.

Sure there's a small delta between what you say and what others claim you say. Unless they verbatim repeat what you say there will always be a delta.

Don't pretend to don't understand the point they are making and address it.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#130
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok? I don't think society is overall hostile to men. I'm a man. I think I might have noticed. I'm not telling you to sacrifice your son to some abstract goal. I'm telling you that his happiness depend on things more meaningful than a gender label. Your son doesn't have to attach his identity to an oppressor class that is ending, which surely would impact his happiness. He can instead attach it to the end of oppressio…

> Ok? I don't think society is overall hostile to men. I'm a man. I think I might have noticed. Your left wing ideology is so extreme that it's causing you to hopelessly contradict yourself, are you aware of that? It looks ridiculous. You already said "I'm perfectly fine with things like the future is female" - that's objectively a very hostile statement against men but because you yourself are a part of the woke mis…

Ah, a spew of right-wing ideological talking points without the slightest bit of data. How surprising to find this in a discussion relating to feminism! I am perfectly ok with people who spout stuff like this claiming I'm ridiculous, so you just keep going, bub.
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