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Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

nature.com

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Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#11

Post by stuckinhell »

sfgoodforonce wrote: post #7
stuckinhell wrote: post #4

National hiring experiments reveal 2:1 faculty preference for women on STEM tenure track - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1418878112 Even where I work, I'm under a lot of pressure to hire more women engineers to the point we bend rules and relax standards. There is a ton of societal and economic pressure with slogans like "the future is female". I'm a mother and I do not think this is a good thing. I have a so…

> I have a son and I caught him and friends gravitating to Andrew Tate like content. He's so young, and he already feels that society is hostile against him. Society is hostile against him. Anti-male prejudice is absolutely everywhere. Andrew Tate is a get-rich-quick grifter and possibly a criminal, but he’s right about some things.

Maybe but his family isn't. I'm trying my best to protect him, which is why it was so shocking when I checked his internet usage.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#12

Post by Zetice »

stuckinhell wrote: post #4

National hiring experiments reveal 2:1 faculty preference for women on STEM tenure track - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1418878112 Even where I work, I'm under a lot of pressure to hire more women engineers to the point we bend rules and relax standards. There is a ton of societal and economic pressure with slogans like "the future is female". I'm a mother and I do not think this is a good thing. I have a so…

It’s funny, for men to think society is against them, when in reality they define society.

As a straight white male, there are very few rooms, very few jobs, very few situations where I don’t have absolute confidence that I belong there. Is it so bad to think everybody should feel that way?

Your son will be fine.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#14

Post by sfgoodforonce »

stuckinhell wrote: post #11
sfgoodforonce wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a son and I caught him and friends gravitating to Andrew Tate like content. He's so young, and he already feels that society is hostile against him. Society is hostile against him. Anti-male prejudice is absolutely everywhere. Andrew Tate is a get-rich-quick grifter and possibly a criminal, but he’s right about some things.

Maybe but his family isn't. I'm trying my best to protect him, which is why it was so shocking when I checked his internet usage.

The most you can do to protect him is the same that people do in hostile regimes throughout the ages: make sure that by a certain age he understands that there’s a difference between what’s actually right and wrong and what the powers that be expect him to adhere to. It’s okay to make a stand but only if you’re very sure that the upside is worth the costs. The people blasting anti-feminist content under their real identity, to no personal or societal gain, are idiots.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#15

Post by stuckinhell »

Zetice wrote: post #12
stuckinhell wrote: post #4

National hiring experiments reveal 2:1 faculty preference for women on STEM tenure track - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1418878112 Even where I work, I'm under a lot of pressure to hire more women engineers to the point we bend rules and relax standards. There is a ton of societal and economic pressure with slogans like "the future is female". I'm a mother and I do not think this is a good thing. I have a so…

It’s funny, for men to think society is against them, when in reality they define society. As a straight white male, there are very few rooms, very few jobs, very few situations where I don’t have absolute confidence that I belong there. Is it so bad to think everybody should feel that way? Your son will be fine.

You sure have a lot of assumptions there. Generational changes are occurring, he won't live the life you or I did.

Also my son isn't white.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#16

Post by Mountain_Skies »

trident5000 wrote: post #8
kilgnad wrote: post #2

How is this an "accomplishment for gender equity." Isn't this still inequity? I think the fact that the writer couldn't perceive how this is still, logically speaking, "inequity" speaks to the bias at play in this area. But then again is true equity even possible? Is it a logical possibility given the biological differences between men and women? Perhaps it's a scientific fact that women are superior to men in scienc…

"This also speaks to the possibility of greater intellectual superiority in women than in men" Or the ability to do diligent repeating work and sit in a chair.

Or have committees and institutions that openly discriminate on their behalf to the cheers of the political establishment.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#17

Post by jbirer »

kilgnad wrote: post #2

How is this an "accomplishment for gender equity." Isn't this still inequity? I think the fact that the writer couldn't perceive how this is still, logically speaking, "inequity" speaks to the bias at play in this area. But then again is true equity even possible? Is it a logical possibility given the biological differences between men and women? Perhaps it's a scientific fact that women are superior to men in scienc…

People are OK with injustice unless it affects them personally.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#18

Post by drno123 »

As a male engineer, whose grandmother got PhD in Physics around 1960 when overall PhDs were more strict than today, and especially for women, I think it is both bad when women are being held back “because they should stay at home and raise a family”, and when we want to right a historic wrong by having double standards so we could hire more women in STEM roles. We need meritocracy.

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#19

Post by ed25519FUUU »

Zetice wrote: post #12
stuckinhell wrote: post #4

National hiring experiments reveal 2:1 faculty preference for women on STEM tenure track - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1418878112 Even where I work, I'm under a lot of pressure to hire more women engineers to the point we bend rules and relax standards. There is a ton of societal and economic pressure with slogans like "the future is female". I'm a mother and I do not think this is a good thing. I have a so…

It’s funny, for men to think society is against them, when in reality they define society. As a straight white male, there are very few rooms, very few jobs, very few situations where I don’t have absolute confidence that I belong there. Is it so bad to think everybody should feel that way? Your son will be fine.

What are your thoughts on the study GP linked to?

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1418878112

Re: Females more likely than males to be elected in US scientific societies

#20

Post by Calavar »

area51org wrote: post #3
kilgnad wrote: post #2

How is this an "accomplishment for gender equity." Isn't this still inequity? I think the fact that the writer couldn't perceive how this is still, logically speaking, "inequity" speaks to the bias at play in this area. But then again is true equity even possible? Is it a logical possibility given the biological differences between men and women? Perhaps it's a scientific fact that women are superior to men in scienc…

> Perhaps it's a scientific fact that women are superior to men in science The only valid broad generalization is that there are no valid broad generalizations. My take? I think we men are used to having things handed to us, and women in our society are used to having to try hard, and with more or less equal opportunity, they're kicking ass.

> Female researchers in mathematics, psychology and economics are 3–15 times more likely to be elected as members of the US National Academy of Sciences (NAS) or the American Academy of Arts and Sciences than are male counterparts who have similar publication and citation records

That line doesn't really match with men being asked to try equally hard.

It seems to me that academic and professional societies are desparate to hit a 50/50 balance in new inductees, but they are finding that there is a paucity of qualified candidates due to upstream issues. (Remember that the current crop of peak career researchers started their training in the 80s and 90s, when the gender split among new trainees in the sciences skewed heavily male and when DEI programs for early career researchers did not exist nearly to the extent that they do now.)

But if you admit a class of inductees that's 80% men and 20% women in this day and age, it's very difficult to explain in a way that doesn't put you in a hot seat. It's much easier to apply asymmetric standards until you get a neat 50/50 split (or at least something close) because this is less likely to raise questions. So that's what the societies do.

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