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Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

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Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#161

Post by daneel_w »

tacker2000 wrote: post #15
MissTake wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, still leaves them behind. I’ve been using AppCleaner ( https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/ ) for years now and it’s a real neat (and free) app that’ll do a pretty decent job of cleaning up crud.

This is just unbelievable. The billion $$ company cant just automate the uninstall procedure for their users? How hard would it be to auto delete the contents of ~/Library? Or have some periodic auto clean? one can always dream, no? I wonder how many users that have uninstalled VMware still have 30 gigs of unused VMs lying around on their disk.

It's by design. The files are your preferences, not the application's preferences. A lot of people throw away the old app bundle when they download a new version of it for applications that don't update themselves. It would be an infuriating user experience and absolutely absurd design choice if dropping the bundle in the trash also erased the users' preferences.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#162

Post by daneel_w »

AbusiveHNAdmin wrote: post #84
mdmglr wrote: post #2

I recently had to uninstall some apps and it’s common for apps to litter files throughout /Library and ~/Library. The UX from early MacOS days is you can drag/drop the App to the Trash Can to uninstall it. Does MacOS actually clean up the misc. files applications leave at some point?

[flagged]

I'll help you out by offering this common scenario:

You have an application which is a normal app bundle. It doesn't update itself because, well, few developers have bothered taking this route, so you download a new version of it and you throw the old one in the trash. Now all of your preferences are gone and you have to set everything up again.

That would not be a pleasant user experience, would it. Dropping the bundle in the trash doesn't remove your preferences because it would be an idiotic thing to do.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#163

Post by detrites »

alin23 wrote: post #121
detrites wrote: post #120

Why are an applications files physically moved elsewhere in the first place? Simply leave everything in the app bundle, and put symlinks for anything the OS is expecting elsewhere. Cleaning up app deletion would then be pruning dead symlinks. Such a system could also potentially be enforced. Is it a symlink? If "yes" allow the write to ~/Library or wherever else. If not, deny it. Genuine question: is there some reaso…

Those aren’t app files, they are user configuration files. They can’t be created inside the app bundle because the app is signed, and any modification will invalidate the signature. There’s also the matter of permissions, some apps may be installed by the admin, but the app might not run with admin permissions for some users.

In my experience there are both a users config files and an applications support files strewn all over the place with abandon. Maybe I wasn't clear, I'm suggesting distinguishing out-of-bundle application files by making them symlinks:

> Why are an applications files physically moved elsewhere in the first place?

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#164

Post by alin23 »

detrites wrote: post #163
alin23 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren’t app files, they are user configuration files. They can’t be created inside the app bundle because the app is signed, and any modification will invalidate the signature. There’s also the matter of permissions, some apps may be installed by the admin, but the app might not run with admin permissions for some users.

In my experience there are both a users config files and an applications support files strewn all over the place with abandon. Maybe I wasn't clear, I'm suggesting distinguishing out-of-bundle application files by making them symlinks: > Why are an applications files physically moved elsewhere in the first place?

Application support files are still new files that get created from scratch, not moved from the application bundle.

It’s possible there’s misunderstanding in what we both consider application files. Anything that exists in the AppName.app bundle never gets modified, deleted or moved. And it’s not possible to create any new file in that bundle, not even symlinks, without invalidating the signature.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#165

Post by mattigames »

Joeri wrote: post #101
jasonhansel wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Would you like to allow your toaster to make toast?" "Please grant your refrigerator permission to store milk."

You jest, but I think a kosher refrigerator that somehow prevented dairy from finding its way into the meat section would find customers.

Nonsense, is obvious that an smart artificial throat will be the final solution to this problem, it will use AI and lasers to dispose atoms of pork and non-kosher food before it reaches your stomach, automating God's will just like he intended.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#166

Post by swashbuck1r »

plq wrote: post #155
pfp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The user data, preferences etc under ~/Library/ belong to you - whether it's 3 kB of preference toggles or 3 decades of email. It would be "unbelievable" if a multibillion company decided to be helpful and erase your data just because you deleted the binary that created them (actually, it wouldn't, but let's not digress into how those companies are stripping away our agency by mobile-ossifying everything). The wh…

> Also, "uninstallable" means "cannot be installed" Nope. In writing, it's technically ambiguous -- it could mean both "can't be installed" or "can't be uninstalled" but to me it means "can't be uninstalled". In spoken language, it depends how you stress the first syllable and both could be used, I guess. That's why if you want to denote the installability of something, you should use the nonambiguous installable-non…

The ambiguous uninstallable meanings would be:

* cannot be installed

* can be uninstalled

The Wikipedia link you posted agrees with that interpretation.

I think “can’t be uninstalled” would be “non-uninstallable”.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#167

Post by dm33tri »

Kwpolska wrote: post #129
pfp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The user data, preferences etc under ~/Library/ belong to you - whether it's 3 kB of preference toggles or 3 decades of email. It would be "unbelievable" if a multibillion company decided to be helpful and erase your data just because you deleted the binary that created them (actually, it wouldn't, but let's not digress into how those companies are stripping away our agency by mobile-ossifying everything). The wh…

> The whole Mac idea was that there's no "uninstall process" with opaque windoze registries etc; what the Finder shows you is simple enough for an average user to understand. Like dragging an "Application" or a CD-ROM into the Trash to get rid of it. Of course they ruined all that with ~/Library/{Preferences,Application Whatever,Kitchen Sink}/. The Windows registry is a simple key-value store, just like the macOS def…

I think on macOS programs are able to store data "inside" themselves, because .app files are just folders. They usually shouldn't put stuff in Library.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#168

Post by dewey »

dm33tri wrote: post #167
Kwpolska wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole Mac idea was that there's no "uninstall process" with opaque windoze registries etc; what the Finder shows you is simple enough for an average user to understand. Like dragging an "Application" or a CD-ROM into the Trash to get rid of it. Of course they ruined all that with ~/Library/{Preferences,Application Whatever,Kitchen Sink}/. The Windows registry is a simple key-value store, just like the macOS def…

I think on macOS programs are able to store data "inside" themselves, because .app files are just folders. They usually shouldn't put stuff in Library.

That's wrong, of course they should put stuff in the ~/Library if necessary. That's why if you update an app it just replaces the whole .app directory, and also if you uninstall something and then install it again all your settings will still be there.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#169

Post by miked85 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #147
miked85 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are too busy working on allowing Safari to maximize as expected.

What're you talking about? Did Safari implement maximize functionality? Incredible if it's true.

Just a joke - I've never understood why literally every other app works, but not Safari.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#170

Post by DavideNL »

goalieca wrote: post #51
crazygringo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think the real problem is that deleting an app isn't uninstalling (which is sometimes a feature not a bug), but Apple provides no paradigm for actually uninstalling that deletes preferences too.

They do on iOS.

Unfortunately, they don’t. There are many apps which after uninstalling, and reinstalling them weeks later, prompt you with: “Hello David, welcome back”, etc. I need to login again etc. (cache was cleared) but my settings are still there.

This happens even when deleting the app from ALL devices connected to my AppleID.

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