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Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

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Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#111

Post by dmitriid »

leonidasv wrote: post #97
pfp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The user data, preferences etc under ~/Library/ belong to you - whether it's 3 kB of preference toggles or 3 decades of email. It would be "unbelievable" if a multibillion company decided to be helpful and erase your data just because you deleted the binary that created them (actually, it wouldn't, but let's not digress into how those companies are stripping away our agency by mobile-ossifying everything). The wh…

When I delete an app on an iPhone, all its data is also deleted. Gone. Why can't it be the same for the Mac? That's what the average end-user understands by removing an app from the system nowadays.

> When I delete an app on an iPhone, all its data is also deleted. Gone. Why can't it be the same for the Mac?

Because on iPhone the app is completely sandboxed. Think Docker, with virtualised OS paths, but on OS level. When Apple tried to introduce a very light version of sandboxing, the world was ablaze in pitchforks and torches.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#112

Post by newaccount74 »

riolu wrote: post #94
rswail wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the app isn't signed (that's the so-called "developer tax", because it costs you USD100/year), then its: 1. Drag into Applications, try to open it, get warning. 2. Open System Preferences > Security & Privacy > General, click on lock, enter admin password, allow the app to be opened. So it's not as easy as it used to be.

"right" click the app and select "Open" creates the same exception without the need to open settings. There's also an equivalent terminal command for the exception I can't remember. If either of those aren't satisfying, you can always drop the check entirely which I can't personally recommend.

> you can always drop the check entirely

I don't think you can? Unless I am missing something?

You can add Terminal to "developer tools" so you can launch stuff from the shell without Gatekeeper interfering, but is there really a way to disable the gatekeeper warning for downloaded apps altogether?

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#113

Post by fingerlocks »

leonidasv wrote: post #97
pfp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The user data, preferences etc under ~/Library/ belong to you - whether it's 3 kB of preference toggles or 3 decades of email. It would be "unbelievable" if a multibillion company decided to be helpful and erase your data just because you deleted the binary that created them (actually, it wouldn't, but let's not digress into how those companies are stripping away our agency by mobile-ossifying everything). The wh…

When I delete an app on an iPhone, all its data is also deleted. Gone. Why can't it be the same for the Mac? That's what the average end-user understands by removing an app from the system nowadays.

There is an exception on iOS as well. Apps can register write access to a custom location on iCloud that will persist after the app has been deleted. You can see all the leftovers in Files.app

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#114

Post by jb1991 »

synchronizing wrote: post #100

Been using AppCleaner[0] with great success for years now. [0] https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

There's also this, which lets you track down all files related to an app anywhere on the system and then manually trash them:

https://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

I used it recently get rid of a bunch of Wacom garbage that was littered throughout my system and causing the mac to crash.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#115

Post by jb1991 »

MissTake wrote: post #4
mdmglr wrote: post #2

I recently had to uninstall some apps and it’s common for apps to litter files throughout /Library and ~/Library. The UX from early MacOS days is you can drag/drop the App to the Trash Can to uninstall it. Does MacOS actually clean up the misc. files applications leave at some point?

Nope, still leaves them behind. I’ve been using AppCleaner ( https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/ ) for years now and it’s a real neat (and free) app that’ll do a pretty decent job of cleaning up crud.

There's also this, which lets you track down all files related to an app anywhere on the system and then manually trash them:

https://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

I used it recently get rid of a bunch of Wacom garbage that was littered throughout my system and causing the mac to crash.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#116

Post by jb1991 »

krackers wrote: post #13
tinglymintyfrsh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AppZapper isn't free, but it's much more thorough.

Based on https://reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/qwp9db/i_have_compared_b... seems like AppCleaner is the more thorough one?

Most thorough would be to investigate every single file on your system for an app using this:

https://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

Then just trash them.

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#117

Post by jb1991 »

gnuj3 wrote: post #10
CharlesW wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free AppCleaner was mentioned by another reader earlier in the thread, and I've been happy with CleanMyMac X.

AppCleaner is no good after you deleted an app by other means and it left crap on the hd tho… as far as I recall CleanMyMac was a paid closed course app?

You can still delete all the junk an app leaves behind using this to find it all, then trash them: https://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#118

Post by throwaway290 »

eviks wrote: post #92
AbusiveHNAdmin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The Windows apologists are non the wiser :). Windows still has no full uninstaller that can clean the registry droppings many apps leave and other files, requiring to use specialized apps for that. And sometimes it would also fail to uninstall the binary. And Windows bizarely needs to retain the huge installers, so that part is strictly worse vs Mac

I think we can choose between either full managed app store mode like on ios (no low-level control but full automatic uninstallation + synced settings and such) or Unix-style where you have full control.

Something inbetween the two is worse, you get installers and uninstallers that are half-broken because they can never assume stuff about your system and just be broken but you never know exactly what they're doing.

Windows and macOS are both inbetween to various degrees, but I think macOS is a bit closer to Unix style (excluding App Store apps).

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#119

Post by jb1991 »

klodolph wrote: post #81
bitwize wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wat So macOS is as shitty as Windows in terms of app install? Anyway, accepted wisdom now is that applications should only run containerized, which would make uninstall as simple as deleting the container.

It’s really not. The stuff in ~/Library is caches + preferences + any other data. Deleting an app on macOS, even back in the day, did not delete the preferences. The problems with Windows is that you needed an installer in the first place, and then an uninstaller, and then you couldn’t move an application to a different location. On a Mac, you can still just drag the application to the /Applications folder, or somewh…

Lots of apps can litter junk all through macOS that goes well beyond the ~/Library folder. To totally rid yourself of everything, just manually search for the app name using FindAnyFile [0] and trash them.

[0] https://apps.tempel.org/FindAnyFile/

Re: Making macOS Apps Uninstallable

#120

Post by detrites »

Why are an applications files physically moved elsewhere in the first place? Simply leave everything in the app bundle, and put symlinks for anything the OS is expecting elsewhere. Cleaning up app deletion would then be pruning dead symlinks.

Such a system could also potentially be enforced. Is it a symlink? If "yes" allow the write to ~/Library or wherever else. If not, deny it.

Genuine question: is there some reason not to do this?

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