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Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

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Re: Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The carcinogenic effects of acute exposure to vinyl chloride are low, and most of it was burned off intentionally by setting the train cars on fire. Those most at risk are the first responders; everyone who heeded the evacuation order should be pretty much fine.

Burning vinyl chlorine turns it into phosgene. The deadliest chemical weapon from WW1. I'd say there's some risk involved. https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/02/17/was-vinyl-chloride-use...

Some risk, yes, which is why I mentioned the first responders, as they were closest to the burn itself.

Phosgene breaks down in the environment on timescales measured from hours to days. The five-day evac window was more than enough to remove all appreciable amounts of phosgene from the environment. And given how reactive it is, you can trust the lack of anyone showing up in a hospital in east Ohio looking like they climbed out of an eastern-front trench as indicative that the phosgene has not caused harm.

It's real easy to over-estimate the damage this spill will do. In practice, people have been using (and spilling) vinyl chloride for over 180 years; we have a pretty good sense of the damage it can do. Not a good situation, but far on the low end of environmental impact risks (somewhere north of "a car full of diapers" and far, far south of "a car full of perchloroethylene").

Re: Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

#62
post #35
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those “weird white deposits” are normal and have always been a thing. The rainwater evaporates but leaves some minerals behind

The fact that I'm referring to them as "weird" means that they are not, in fact, normal. Presumably if any of these people had seen such a thing before, they wouldn't be so concerned about it.

Fair enough. I recently moved out of CT but talked to some people ik there after posting that and agree it is pretty unusual

Re: Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

#64
post #14

I wonder how many of the symptoms people are reporting are just placebo

Yes, you're naturally going to see a mix of mass psychogenic illness and actually-chemically-induced symptoms, and it's going to be terribly difficult to tell them apart, especially from just news reports. :-/

Re: Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

#65
post #13

A bunch of people here in CT have been posting pictures of weird white deposits on their cars from rain (which, apparently, is currently carrying stuff from OH). Seems like there's a pretty high chance that this ends up as one of those things where we may not be fully aware of the fallout (no pun intended) until years from now, if ever.

This makes me think of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_windshield_pitting_epi...

Re: Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

#67

It seems very strange that they'd rather burn the vinyl chloride instead of attempting to capture or recover it, both from an environmental and economic perspective.

Vinyl chloride, when burned, can create poisonous byproducts such as phosgene and carbon monoxide. Vinyl chloride that leaks into the environment is a carcinogen that can cause damage decades into the future. It's a tradeoff, but probably a good one. We can deal with the acute danger of poisonous gas by temporary evacuations and air filters. Once a carcinogen is in the ground or the water, though, it's much more difficult to get it all cleaned up.

Re: Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

#69
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Picking up liquid off the ground seems very difficult, I imagine.

Not for Bounty.

What East Palestine needs is a publicity-stunt visit from Vince Offer with a truckload of ShamWows!!!

Re: Clinic to open near Ohio derailment as health worries linger

#70

Air and surface water measurements are mentioned for the train car contents. Is anyone aware if there is top soil or swipe testing for the train car contents or suspected partial combustion compounds? That black cloud did not look like the cleanest burn. Isn’t it naive to burn a mixture then test for the fuel in the aftermath and say look no fuel here there must be no contamination? What a mess.

Purely speculating: it's possible, in the scenario that you described, that the fuel is far more toxic than the combustion compounds, so something was indeed achieved

Of course, my understanding is that the combustion compounds are also toxic, but I wanted to respond to what you've written.

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