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Last Flight Out

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Re: Last Flight Out

#311

Post by rolenthedeep »

golergka wrote: post #302
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #234

These stories about the logistics at Amundsen-Scott are a fascinating glimpse at the level of logistical complexity that'd be required for an off-planet (Moon, Mars...) base. Every time I see people get excited about Martian human habitation, I note a lack of discussion of the essential intermediate step: a fully self-sustaining base in the most inhospitable parts of Earth. Where are the Biosphere++ projects? And Amu…

> Every time I see people get excited about Martian human habitation, I note a lack of discussion of the essential intermediate step: a fully self-sustaining base in the most inhospitable parts of Earth. I remember a pretty popular book and a Hollywood starring Matt Damon which primarily focused on this exact problem.

Unless you're talking about an entirely different story with the same title, it's about an individual person trying to survive alone somewhere with very limited resources. At no point is his situation sustainable, and he only barely just survives to be rescued.

It really has nothing at all to do with developing a sustainable base on any planet. It's about some clever survival strategies, all of which are considered temporary at best.

Re: Last Flight Out

#312

Post by raldi »

hgsgm wrote: post #76
ta1243 wrote: post #40

The shower page was interesting, you get 4 minutes of shower time a week https://brr.fyi/posts/showering-at-the-south-pole I'm surprised they can't just melt snow water to run things like showers. Oddly no suggestions on the page about doubling up your shower with someone else to have longer or more frequent showers.

2 people in a shower doesn't effectively decrease water usage per person, and the logistics overhead would eat into the 4 minutes.

It sure does. It's a lot easier (and thus, conserves more water) to get suds off someone else's body than your own. You spray and they sweep, or you aim it at their hair and they help get the shampoo out with their hands.

Re: Last Flight Out

#313

Post by foobarbecue »

navi0 wrote: post #232
foobarbecue wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, many people who spent time at McMurdo around the filming of Encounters are not big fans. The interviews were intentionally set up to make people look weird. The narration implies there's something wrong with "polar people." You might find us dissapointingly normal. A Year On Ice is a more accurate representation. I'm in Frozen Planet, but you can't believe all the narration in that either.

Just curious, what’s the male:female ratio of the typical winter crew?

I've never been there in the winter.

Re: Last Flight Out

#314

Post by kjs3 »

foobarbecue wrote: post #304
kjs3 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any people who spent time at McMurdo around the filming of Encounters are not big fans They didn't check out any of Werner Herzogs movies before letting him in? They would have known what they were in for.

Fair point. Actually come to think of it most of the people I talked to who were IN the documentary were ok with it (and my volcanology professor went in to make 2 more movies with Herzog after meeting him during Encounters). It was others at mcmurdo that were angry about the portrayal of the town and generalizations about polar people. Maybe people just seized on it as something to argue about when bored, I dunno.

I've seen "Into the Inferno", which I assume is one of the films your professor was in (is he Oppenheimer?). Visually spectacular, but Hertzog's commentary overlay and approach made it just...odd. He's a weird dude, but very talented.

Re: Last Flight Out

#315

Post by verandaguy »

foobarbecue wrote: post #306
verandaguy wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you either are or were formerly posted in the Antarctic — any advice about how to get involved, and maybe get a shift working there, as a civilian with a technical background but without much in the way of a research background? Or is it just totally off the table?

Used to be pretty easy to sign up as a dishwasher or that kind of thing. If you are in interested in science, find a PI looking for grad students. Edit: I read more closely. There are technical grantee groups as well, like UNAVCO and IRIS PASSCAL. Not too hard to get a job with one of those. Lots of ways in... Everybody I know who has really tried has made it down there.

Thanks for the pointers! Hope I can get a spot down there in a few years too.

Re: Last Flight Out

#316

Post by AceJohnny2 »

Schroedingersat wrote: post #286
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #234

These stories about the logistics at Amundsen-Scott are a fascinating glimpse at the level of logistical complexity that'd be required for an off-planet (Moon, Mars...) base. Every time I see people get excited about Martian human habitation, I note a lack of discussion of the essential intermediate step: a fully self-sustaining base in the most inhospitable parts of Earth. Where are the Biosphere++ projects? And Amu…

Annual DNI or GTI at the south pole is surprisingly high. About 5-6kWh/m^2 which is pretty close to somewhere like california or western Australia. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334411420_Estimatio... GHI is quite low (your array needs to be very spread out) and seasonality is 1/0, but if seasonal storage were available then a solar array in antarctica is fine. Mars GHI is about 550W/m^2, but there are no…

Thanks so much! I've been looking for this sort of information for years! (and didn't have the competence to calculate myself)

Re: Last Flight Out

#317

Post by foobarbecue »

kjs3 wrote: post #314
foobarbecue wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point. Actually come to think of it most of the people I talked to who were IN the documentary were ok with it (and my volcanology professor went in to make 2 more movies with Herzog after meeting him during Encounters). It was others at mcmurdo that were angry about the portrayal of the town and generalizations about polar people. Maybe people just seized on it as something to argue about when bored, I dunno.

I've seen "Into the Inferno", which I assume is one of the films your professor was in (is he Oppenheimer?). Visually spectacular, but Hertzog's commentary overlay and approach made it just...odd. He's a weird dude, but very talented.

Yep. On all counts.

Re: Last Flight Out

#318

Post by tiagod »

grecy wrote: post #94
tiagod wrote: post #87

This guy is living my dream! Unlikely I'll have have the chance to work in inland Antarctica as I'm not from a country that sends people over there for tech stuff, but I still hope someday I'll have the chance :)

If you really want to go, be a dishwasher or cook or something similar. I've had 4 friends do exactly that. The work was crap, but the experience was well, well worth it.

I think that would work for US nationals, for example, but I'm pretty sure they don't accept people with a Portuguese passport.

Re: Last Flight Out

#319

Post by goldenchrome »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #179
goldenchrome wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Just to recap your argument: > We enforce the rules in our society because we can afford to. In the Antarctic winter where resources are incredibly scarce and the people are trapped for months a time, their local society can’t afford to have such strict standards. The animal within each of us comes out in Antarctica more than anywhere else. This is of course part of what makes living there so exciting on an elemental…

I didn’t say it was totally fine, I said it was expected. Is the violence in ghettos and prisons the result of bad people or a stressful environment?

Othering these people and calling them psychos is a convenient way to excuse yourself. We are all human and we are all capable of evil. It is the environment that dictates our behavior.

Re: Last Flight Out

#320

Post by goldenchrome »

clarkema wrote: post #141
goldenchrome wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a fine goal but it doesn’t take away from the fact that Antarctica is a hostile environment which makes it hard to establish civilization. I’m describing reality, not my own personal wishes.

We don't "establish" civilization. We take it with us.

The soldiers who go abroad and commit murder and rape are also taking their civilization with them. Civilization is vital for our species’ continued success but it requires specific conditions to maintain. Each of us is capable of atrocious things.
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