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Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

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Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#111

Post by Dylan16807 »

palata wrote: post #110
Dylan16807 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a couple percent of cars were in this kind of system, they'd be waiting all over. It would be much less than 20 minutes. They could even set up equivalent "stations" where there's almost always a car parked within a couple blocks and it can get there before you do. I don't go on a lot of long-term trips, but if I did that would still be a reason to get one car for a household instead of multiple. For rarer trips I…

Really it sounds like you describe an efficient public transport system :). Of course not every city has that (I hear public transport kind of sucks in the US), but still it's important to know that other countries have that, without autonomous cars.

You'd have to run a bus every three minutes to get the same speed of pickup at stations.

But also those busses wouldn't be able to come to your door, or drop you off directly at your destination.

So I don't think I'm describing efficient public transport. I'm describing something like the platonic ideal of taxis in a dense city, but without the huge number of drivers.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#112

Post by diebeforei485 »

lamontcg wrote: post #105
diebeforei485 wrote: post #92

> the car accelerated from 39 mph to a top speed of 67 mph 2 seconds before the final tree impact, which occurred at about 57 mph. The application of the accelerator pedal ranged from 8% to 98% during the 5 seconds of recorded data, and there was no evidence of braking. My hot take is that it shouldn't be possible to accelerate that quickly unless you actually apply the pedal to 100%. Also, I think the accelerator an…

my hotter take is that there should be acceleration and velocity limits that are geo-gated and you shouldn't be able to go more than 30% over the speed limit in urban areas.

Agreed!!

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#113

Post by BoorishBears »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #102
BoorishBears wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mid 2000s LKA was passive systems in the US market: they were backups that vibrated the seat or steering wheel, or provided mild outputs. That meant they couldn't actively put the driver into danger, making them inherently safer than a system that will gladly drive onto a sidewalk Now what about active systems from back then? Almost 20 years ago Lexus had learned the lessons that Tesla kicked and resisted until about…

>Now what about active systems from back then? Almost 20 years ago Lexus had learned the lessons that Tesla kicked and resisted until about 2 years ago on Lexus/Toyota doesn't "learn lessons". The are simply ultra-conservative about adopting anything so when anything is a dud or the V1 version sucks they wind up looking smart.

... what and utterly bizzare form of sour grapes.

"They're not so smart, they just took a conservative approach to the life or death problem of drive attentiveness that resulted in their V1 solution outperforming Tesla's V3.x solution which came out 16 years later"

I mean for all their risk averseness, the Corolla got driver awareness monitoring before Tesla did, I don't think your point really works...

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#114

Post by palata »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #111
palata wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really it sounds like you describe an efficient public transport system :). Of course not every city has that (I hear public transport kind of sucks in the US), but still it's important to know that other countries have that, without autonomous cars.

You'd have to run a bus every three minutes to get the same speed of pickup at stations. But also those busses wouldn't be able to come to your door, or drop you off directly at your destination. So I don't think I'm describing efficient public transport. I'm describing something like the platonic ideal of taxis in a dense city, but without the huge number of drivers.

I would say that metros in Paris are much, much closer to 3min than to 20 (20 sounds like the middle of the night).

But now imagine if every passenger instead took an individual car? That would require a lot of cars.

Yes, an individual car is more comfortable if you can afford it and if not too many people have one (otherwise you need big big roads to avoid traffic jams). But really my ideal is closer to metros/trams than taxis.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#115

Post by erik_seaberg »

akira2501 wrote: post #80
commiepatrol wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have self driving that works and it's called a train. Instead of dumping money into self driving we should improve infrastructure and motivate more people to take trains.

> and motivate more people to take trains. If you build a train that does what I need without requiring copious amounts of my spare time, I might take it. If you don't then your only "motivation" boils down to "reducing options until the train is all that is left." People need infrastructure that meets their demands. If it works, they'll be plenty motivated.

This. My new office (a 25 minute drive off peak) is unusual in having a train station nearby, but to get there I need to take a bus to a different train in the wrong direction, in all a 90 minute ordeal (worse off peak).

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#116

Post by Dylan16807 »

palata wrote: post #114
Dylan16807 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to run a bus every three minutes to get the same speed of pickup at stations. But also those busses wouldn't be able to come to your door, or drop you off directly at your destination. So I don't think I'm describing efficient public transport. I'm describing something like the platonic ideal of taxis in a dense city, but without the huge number of drivers.

I would say that metros in Paris are much, much closer to 3min than to 20 (20 sounds like the middle of the night). But now imagine if every passenger instead took an individual car? That would require a lot of cars. Yes, an individual car is more comfortable if you can afford it and if not too many people have one (otherwise you need big big roads to avoid traffic jams). But really my ideal is closer to metros/trams…

If you bring out metros, you can get to those numbers, but now you're at a tiny number of places, and most cities just aren't dense enough for that even if they're going for great public transit.

> otherwise you need big big roads to avoid traffic jams

Right, that's the main downside, but there's a lot of areas where they'd fit.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#117

Post by KyleBerezin »

kdamica wrote: post #24

Almost 43,000 people died in car-related deaths in the US in 2021 (and millions more worldwide). I hope we can stop focusing on the small number of deaths from this one car company that has self-driving features. Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_bites_dog

Same with fires. It seemed like every tesla fire was reported by the news for a while, meanwhile conventional vehicles are at least 5x more likely to start on fire.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#118

Post by palata »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #116
palata wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that metros in Paris are much, much closer to 3min than to 20 (20 sounds like the middle of the night). But now imagine if every passenger instead took an individual car? That would require a lot of cars. Yes, an individual car is more comfortable if you can afford it and if not too many people have one (otherwise you need big big roads to avoid traffic jams). But really my ideal is closer to metros/trams…

If you bring out metros, you can get to those numbers, but now you're at a tiny number of places, and most cities just aren't dense enough for that even if they're going for great public transit. > otherwise you need big big roads to avoid traffic jams Right, that's the main downside, but there's a lot of areas where they'd fit.

I think trams and buses work well, too. Of course buses are getting closer to autonomous taxis, but it still feels more efficient to share a bus than to have one person per taxi :).

Then of course they can be used together. In my city there is a system of rental cars that you leave at different stops: you have a card and can just take the car if it's there. The car doesn't come to you, but still it's a pretty good solution I think.

Anyway, autonomous cars have to get reliable before they can actually be used with public transports, I guess.

Re: Cause of Fatal 2021 Tesla Wreck Was “Excessive Speed” and “Alcohol Intoxication”

#119

Post by statop »

ajross wrote: post #104
statop wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't how humans work. In any case, most humans are capable of FSD. Your Tesla isn't. No one cares about 360 degree 30Hz cameras. Just like two eyes aren't the solution to driving. Lots of animals have two eyes, most of them won't ever drive a vehicle. Other commenter "My coworker gave me a ride in his Tesla ... FSD tried to cross over into the opposing lanes, ran a red, narrowly avoided hitting a cyclist" Your…

> Should we trust Steve because Rick is a good driver? We should accept that all drivers make mistakes, even you, and demand measurable safety metrics from all our control systems. Is that really so weird? What we should not do is start thousand-comment flame wars on HN about how Steve is unsafe and that we should take away his license. In fact, those three mistakes are of course routine for human drivers. I bet you…

Swerve into oncoming traffic, run red lights, and come dangerously close to hitting cyclists? Who do you think I am, Vin Diesel at the Tour de France?

“Objectively safe“ was a pretty quick r/agedlikemilk given the recall.

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