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Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

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Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#81

I’ll remind everyone of the Princeton study that proved our democracy is a sham. Policy outcomes are almost exclusively the product of the preferences of economic elites, not of the People. If you do get a legislative outcome you wanted it’s a coincidence that some big power’s agenda accidentally aligned with your own.

I'm more and more convinced that parliament or congress by lottery would be more representative and functional as well as the death of all political parties as they exist today.

I used to joke that, but each day makes me think it may actually do some good even if it will introduce some chaos to the process.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#82
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they make changes after he signed it though?

She [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Hochul

I downvoted this comment. The person you’re replying to seems to be using gender-neutral pronouns in good faith, and I don’t think this comment contributes to the discussion.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#83

We can blame big tech (or economic elites more generally) for prioritising their financial gain (hence what they can claim from the rest of society) over e.g., ther sustainability and welfare of the very same society on which they lay these claims. We can blame captured politicians for listening to powerful yet minority interests over the interests of the very people who appointed them to these roles. We can blame ci…

We can blame HN for providing social engineering tools to make this status permanent, even in a society in decline?

We can, but it does not seem like a useful thing to do. Do we blame hammer makers for making better hammers?

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a bicameral system with a House of Representatives (with a much larger body, with the number of constituents per representative fixed) and the a other body (we could even still call it the Senate for continuity and familiarity) being selected by sortition the way you describe would work well, and be a good transition step

I don't think there is a benefit to any kind of bicameral system, regardless of how it is setup. A large unicameral system allows for more direct representation and should limit the influence of money when combined with term limits. "Tyranny of the majority" seems like more of a problem for the rich and powerful, in my experience.

“Tyranny of the majority”

I dunno, I can definitely think of some times in our history when it impacted the poorest people.

I think there’s something very useful in the elections for representatives, in terms of it being an official poll of the people.

I think sortition is a really interesting concept and could work well, but I think it won’t work if it’s the only legislative body. I would be pretty starkly against that, but I would support reforms that made it the second legislative body.

If you really want a unicameral system as your top priority, I’d support a proportional representation House of Representatives.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ this. It turns out a government will more effectively avoid flagrant injustice if its structure makes it difficult to accomplish anything quickly without supermajoritarian agreement.

Example?

War on drugs.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#86
This is neither unsurprising nor uncommon.

Here's how this works: billionaires and large companies pour billions into "think tanks", either directly or indirectly. Those think tanks represent a particular set of interests that align with the donors. Part of the job of those think tanks is quite literally to write legislation.

There have been cases of certainly state legislation where the legislator introducing the bill has forgotten to take off the think tank's logos.

We are in the era of money = political speech thanks almost entirely to 5 justices who voted for the opinion in Citizens United v. FEC [1]. The damage this has done and will continue to do is almost incalculable.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#87

I’ll remind everyone of the Princeton study that proved our democracy is a sham. Policy outcomes are almost exclusively the product of the preferences of economic elites, not of the People. If you do get a legislative outcome you wanted it’s a coincidence that some big power’s agenda accidentally aligned with your own.

The authors of that study started by filtering down a giant list of survey responses to those where there's a significant difference in responses between the "donor class" and everyone else. I forget exactly how often that happened, but it's a small number. So, just in the premise the study, by needing to throw away almost all the survey responses where everyone agrees and get the policies what they want, actually go…

> The authors of that study started by filtering down a giant list of survey responses to those where there's a significant difference in responses between the "donor class" and everyone else. I forget exactly how often that happened, but it's a small number.

> So, just in the premise the study, by needing to throw away almost all the survey responses where everyone agrees and get the policies what they want, actually goes a far way to debunking the populist premise that "economic elites" and "the People" are opposing factions with inherently different political opinions.

Help me understand, it sounds like you're saying that "when the poor people agree with the rich people, everyone gets what they want and democracy is proved to be healthy, nevermind that when they disagree, the rich people get what they want anyway."

> When a follow-up study further filtered responses to questions where more that margin spans the 5% mark, i.e. most people in each group disagree, then the effect completely disappears and it's more or less a coin toss which way policy goes.

So you're saying that when like, 90% of the rich people wanted A and 90% of the poor people wanted B, then it was a coin toss? That would make a good argument if so. Can you link to the study?

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, it doesn't really make a good argument, because the donor class is so much smaller than the non- that if 90% of donors want A and 90% of the poor want B, B should prevail easily. So if it's a coin toss, that's extremely biased, no?

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok - but you could see these things as persistent illness in any civilization of this size.. So, outrage at the existence alone is not constructive; instead treat the illness knowing that it will never completely go away. "checks and balances" you know? there is a tendency to boil over and demand immediate change.. temper that, make longer commitments?

Outrage is absolutely constructive. The first Gilded Age only gave way to the Progressive Era's reforms after an expose that got the general public completely pissed off. >The Treason of the Senate was a series of articles in Cosmopolitan magazine by David Graham Phillips, published in 1906. The articles were each published a month apart, beginning with the forward in February and the last article, in July. The serie…

Outrage is absolutely constructive.

I hope you're right. Please join us at the anti-war rally at the Lincoln Memorial on Sunday at 12:30. [0] If you can't make it to Washington, there are affiliated rallies happening in various locations around the world this weekend.

[0] https://rageagainstwar.com/

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#89
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you click through to the (much better) article on The Markup, you can see that the lobbying group strongly advocating killing the bill entirely and apparently thought they had succeeded until was voted through and signed. Their request for revisions to be based on some genuine concerns that being obligated to sell every component off-the-shelf means they are telling competitors (and counterfeiters) exactly how to…

Meeting in the middle is an illusion when the window keeps shifting

Idk what this means in this context. There are basically zero right to repair laws in America except this one. Prior to December, no company had any obligation at all. NY just created the window. Once this goes into effect, tech companies are going to essentially forced to comply in order to operate in NY. The other 49 states or the federal government can basically only make the rule broader.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is a benefit to any kind of bicameral system, regardless of how it is setup. A large unicameral system allows for more direct representation and should limit the influence of money when combined with term limits. "Tyranny of the majority" seems like more of a problem for the rich and powerful, in my experience.

“Tyranny of the majority” I dunno, I can definitely think of some times in our history when it impacted the poorest people. I think there’s something very useful in the elections for representatives, in terms of it being an official poll of the people. I think sortition is a really interesting concept and could work well, but I think it won’t work if it’s the only legislative body. I would be pretty starkly against t…

Proportional does not work. Most European parliaments are proportional and has the same dysfunctions as the us system. The root is always the parties. They have to go.
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