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Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

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Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#31

That’s pretty normal. My ex worked at congress and she said that most bills are reviewed and changed by lobbyists before they are submitted. And a lot of their changes get adopted almost verbatim. Same happens with regulations.

It was my impression lobbyists usually write the bills themselves. I don't know if this is how it's always done, but my company recently worked with lobbyists and a senators assistant and the lobbyists wrote a paragraph that, once approved by this assistant, went straight into the appropriations bill. Perfect example of pay to play.

> It was my impression lobbyists usually write the bills themselves

Here's a fairly recent example:

> When the legislation that became known as "Obamacare" was first drafted, the key legislator was the Democratic Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Max Baucus, whose committee took the lead in drafting the legislation. As Baucus himself repeatedly boasted, the architect of that legislation was Elizabeth Folwer, his chief health policy counsel; indeed, as Marcy Wheeler discovered, it was Fowler who actually drafted it.

What was most amazing about all of that was that, before joining Baucus' office as the point person for the health care bill, Fowler was the Vice President for Public Policy and External Affairs (i.e. informal lobbying) at WellPoint, the nation's largest health insurance provider

...as Wheeler wrote at the time: "to the extent that Liz Fowler is the author of this document, we might as well consider WellPoint its author as well."

To add insult to injury, the same lobbyist was later put in charge of drawing up the rules to implement the law.

>More amazingly still, when the Obama White House needed someone to oversee implementation of Obamacare after the bill passed, it chose . . . Liz Fowler.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/05/obamac...

Once the implementation rules were set, she returned to lobbying for the health care industry, this time at Johnson and Johnson.

Liberal icon Bill Moyers did a segment on this for his PBS show and it was as close to being openly pissed off on air as I'd ever seen him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ5tj4cN9Jk

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more and more convinced that parliament or congress by lottery would be more representative and functional as well as the death of all political parties as they exist today.

I think a bicameral system with a House of Representatives (with a much larger body, with the number of constituents per representative fixed) and the a other body (we could even still call it the Senate for continuity and familiarity) being selected by sortition the way you describe would work well, and be a good transition step

I don't think there is a benefit to any kind of bicameral system, regardless of how it is setup. A large unicameral system allows for more direct representation and should limit the influence of money when combined with term limits.

"Tyranny of the majority" seems like more of a problem for the rich and powerful, in my experience.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#33
Laws are written in the US by the people who have time to write them: interns or lobbyists. Being a legislator is a crappy job where you have little time between fundraising and voting to read the laws you vote on, let alone write them.

If you want to make a change, show up and meet in person with state and federal legislators. And if you think, "there outght to be a law" get one written with the help of a few lawyers (who will do this usually for fun and for free) and give it to the the legislator's legislative director.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#34

I’ll remind everyone of the Princeton study that proved our democracy is a sham. Policy outcomes are almost exclusively the product of the preferences of economic elites, not of the People. If you do get a legislative outcome you wanted it’s a coincidence that some big power’s agenda accidentally aligned with your own.

The Princeton study actually showed that when it comes to advancing policies, it was pretty much a wash. Their difference came in when looking at getting policies blocked . If a policy was unpopular with economic elites, they were effective at getting it shut down. It’s an important distinction, because there’s a clear way to see what causes this behavior. There are a myriad of ways that our systems make it easy to b…

I was totally with you until the last sentence. please go on.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#35
This sort of thing accelerated in the 80s[0] as businesses in the 70s saught to make lobbying gains as they have seen public interest groups achieve in the 60s an 70s.

Another shift, is that it was culturally considered bad practice to become a lobbyist[1] quote:

>In 1975 the rare hiring of a former member of Congress as a lobbyist made eyebrows rise

When you combine the two, along with the ever decreasing capacity of being a congress member, lobbying effectively supplants the duty of "law making" to a large degree, and thats how we end up with bills that are almost entirely written by lobbyists in the first place. Of course, this opens up the revolving door practice by lobbyist firms to retain their advantage by hiring former congress people, which deepens the entrenched nature of the power of lobbying.

[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20150805124750/https://www.theat...

[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20120524031659/http://blog.washi...

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#36

I’ll remind everyone of the Princeton study that proved our democracy is a sham. Policy outcomes are almost exclusively the product of the preferences of economic elites, not of the People. If you do get a legislative outcome you wanted it’s a coincidence that some big power’s agenda accidentally aligned with your own.

That’s why you need to get organized, not “vote alone”.

> Our findings of substantial influence by interest groups is particularly striking because little or no previous research has been able to estimate the extent of group influence while controlling for the preferences of other key non- governmental actors. Our evidence clearly indicates that—controlling for the influence of both the average citizen and economic elites—organized interest groups have a very substantial independent impact upon public policy. Theories of interest-group pluralism gain a strong measure of empirical support.

(Quote from your citation below.)

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Princeton study actually showed that when it comes to advancing policies, it was pretty much a wash. Their difference came in when looking at getting policies blocked . If a policy was unpopular with economic elites, they were effective at getting it shut down. It’s an important distinction, because there’s a clear way to see what causes this behavior. There are a myriad of ways that our systems make it easy to b…

I was totally with you until the last sentence. please go on.

I mean it’s really about identifying rules that are anti majoritarian.

On the federal level, the filibuster is an obvious example of a an anti majoritarian rule that creates perverse incentives.

Going deeper, the way that the individual houses are structured gives significant power to committee chairs who gain power through seniority and fundraising for their parties, which creates centralized points of leverage for lobbyists.

What we’ve seen over time is that fewer and fewer bills get passed, and individual bills themselves get larger. This is a result of rules and customs changing within the house and senate themselves that have made it harder and harder to pass small bills, so everything gets rolled into monster packages and the process get more obscured to people who are on the outside.

The thing is that all of these rules get set by majority vote. Leadership elections happen by majority vote. Changing rules can happen without consent of the other house. The issue is that there’s very little understanding or focus on why they are important.

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One doubts anyone can muster the energy even to pretend to surprise in this case. It's worth keeping details like this in mind, however, when discussing society-destroying disasters like stupid wars in other hemispheres or insurance-firm-directed health care. We hear lots of arguments that boil down to: "don't criticize democracy; if the'merican people wanted something else they would vote differently!" As we see mor…

And if the elites only pretend to be democratic, why should the populous accept that quietly and not just rise up?

Bread and circuses[0] keep the population fed and entertained, and people will put up with a lot of bullshit from their government when those basic needs are met.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Re: Big Tech lobbyist language made it verbatim into NY’s hedged repair bill

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was my impression lobbyists usually write the bills themselves. I don't know if this is how it's always done, but my company recently worked with lobbyists and a senators assistant and the lobbyists wrote a paragraph that, once approved by this assistant, went straight into the appropriations bill. Perfect example of pay to play.

> It was my impression lobbyists usually write the bills themselves Here's a fairly recent example: > When the legislation that became known as "Obamacare" was first drafted, the key legislator was the Democratic Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Max Baucus, whose committee took the lead in drafting the legislation. As Baucus himself repeatedly boasted, the architect of that legislation was Elizabeth Folwer,…

Seems business as usual.

Senators wouldn't even return our phone calls. So we had to resort to hiring a lobbyist who they would answer the phone for.

Anytime we'd have a call with the senators assistant, we'd have a call with the lobbyist first. He'd coach us on how to behave, dress, and what to say. We'd then call the assistant and perform our rehearsed parts just like any other theater production.

Access to our representative is gate-kept financially.

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