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Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

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Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#111

Post by stuaxo »

hasmanean wrote: post #77
chmod600 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Critically, natural hydrogen may be not only clean, but also renewable. It takes millions of years for buried and compressed organic deposits to turn into oil and gas. By contrast, natural hydrogen is always being made afresh, when underground water reacts with iron minerals at elevated temperatures and pressures."

The idea that oil and gas come from decaying organic matter is the prevailing theory in the west but some people including Thomas Gold had the idea that they come from the primordial material the earth is made of, and seep up to the crust. If that is the case then there could be vast quantities of hydrocarbons inside the earth. https://youtu.be/lr42BP3wvOw

The problem isn't that we will run out of hydrocarbons - we already have enough known reserves to make the earth uninhabitable to us.

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#112

Post by hasmanean »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106
hasmanean wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I find geologists unconvincing ever since they drove poor Wegener to suicide.

> I find geologists unconvincing ever since they drove poor Wegener to suicide You’re rejecting an empirical and tested field of science because of a single incident?

I really should put a satire label on that comment.

In any case it was not a single incident. They torpedoed his career and made it impossible for him to get a position at any university. Inbred hacks.

One correction: he didn’t commit suicide but died on an expedition to Greenland.

https://medium.com/swlh/the-delirious-ravings-of-alfred-wege...

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#113

Post by credit_guy »

b112 wrote: post #56
credit_guy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Water vapor is a greenhouse gas No. Or rather, yes, water vapor is a greenhouse gas, but it has a halflife measured in days, compared to CO2, which has a halflife measured in decades. So, for all practical purposes, water vapor can be deglected when talking about global warming.

water vapor can be deglected Whyes, mossuredly!

Ok. Can you provide some links where any climate scientist includes the water vapor emissions in their calculations? (by the way contrails are not water vapor emissions)

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#114

Post by hasmanean »

stuaxo wrote: post #111
hasmanean wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that oil and gas come from decaying organic matter is the prevailing theory in the west but some people including Thomas Gold had the idea that they come from the primordial material the earth is made of, and seep up to the crust. If that is the case then there could be vast quantities of hydrocarbons inside the earth. https://youtu.be/lr42BP3wvOw

The problem isn't that we will run out of hydrocarbons - we already have enough known reserves to make the earth uninhabitable to us.

If we can green Mars, surely we can think of a way to green the Sahara.

As always it’s the political will that’s lacking.

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#115

Post by machina_ex_deus »

flangola7 wrote: post #95
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, why don't we stop digging for lithium for the batteries, rare earth minerals for all electronics, metals etc. Where do you think the resources for renewable energy come from? Windmills and solar panels don't come out of thin air. "No more digging stuff" shows such a disconnected view from reality. Everything is "limited" in some sense. The puritan attitude as if you can somehow avoid using resources, is ju…

1 pound of resources used to build a solar panel will provide power for years or decades. 1 pound of gasoline might provide power for 30 minutes. Yes they both run out, but one will run out in the 21st century and the other will run out in the 210th century.

The most limited resources aren't what we pull from the ground. Space is the most limited resource, especially in areas crowded with people. Just look at real estate prices compared to oil. It's negligible.

Solar and wind power are extremely inefficient in the most scarce resource. Oil can be cheaply moved from far off locations to locations with scarce space.

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#116

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

fock wrote: post #98
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems a bit harsh. Uranium decays by both alpha and beta decay, so assuming the author just meant alpha particles in the quoted sentence.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_particle well ...

I don't understand your "well..."

Yes, exactly my point, alpha particles are helium nuclei, so I'm assuming that's what the author meant and simply made a mistake highlighting the beta decay of uranium instead of the alpha particles it emits.

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#117

Post by zopa »

panick21_ wrote: post #101
zopa wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many people here cheering for their preferred carbon-free energy source like it’s a sports team. It’s bizarre. We’re going to need to do lots of different things. There’s no need to fight about it; everybody’s favorite will have a chance.

> We’re going to need to do lots of different things. There’s no need to fight about it; everybody’s favorite will have a chance. Actually this isn't the case. Funding choices matter. And not all technology can get funding. Hydrogen investment for the last 40 years has cost untold billions, and has led to almost nothing. Its has actually delayed real efforts in places like Japan. Here we have an article asking for in…

If thorium is cheap, there should be plenty of funding to go around. If it’s expensive, what’s the point?

I’d also be interested to hear roughly how much public funding you think is implied by the article. My takeaway was that it suggested: 1) some geological surveys, 2) maybe some regulatory fixes, 3) a bunch of private investment. All of which are the next thing to free by government standards.

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#118

Post by zopa »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #50
zopa wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many people here cheering for their preferred carbon-free energy source like it’s a sports team. It’s bizarre. We’re going to need to do lots of different things. There’s no need to fight about it; everybody’s favorite will have a chance.

They all require funding for more research to hopefully bring them to fruition. In that sense, it's understandable why people who have joined Team Clean X would want to push the message of how it is better than Team Clean Y.

Sure, but it’s wildly counterproductive. The result is free-floating negativity about all the possible solutions. Until we’re meeting the scale of the problem, we should all be focusing on “yes, and”

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#119

Post by b112 »

credit_guy wrote: post #113
b112 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

water vapor can be deglected Whyes, mossuredly!

Ok. Can you provide some links where any climate scientist includes the water vapor emissions in their calculations? (by the way contrails are not water vapor emissions)

No. My whole purpose was to make fun of made up, conjoined words. :P

Re: Hydrogen: Does Earth hold vast stores of a renewable, carbon-free fuel?

#120

Post by Tagbert »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #115
flangola7 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 pound of resources used to build a solar panel will provide power for years or decades. 1 pound of gasoline might provide power for 30 minutes. Yes they both run out, but one will run out in the 21st century and the other will run out in the 210th century.

The most limited resources aren't what we pull from the ground. Space is the most limited resource, especially in areas crowded with people. Just look at real estate prices compared to oil. It's negligible. Solar and wind power are extremely inefficient in the most scarce resource. Oil can be cheaply moved from far off locations to locations with scarce space.

Space in general is not limited. The price for the land varies significantly and solar and wind are generally located in the lower price areas where there are not crowds of people.
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